Stuck Incandescent Bulb

[Ed Pawlowski]

Please explain how a tad more force on the base makes the tungsten element burn out faster. Not that I doubt you but I don't see the correlation.

[TimR]

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failure. The only possible effect that I can think of due to socket corros ion is reduced heat transfer from the bulb to the material surrounding the socket. That is a negligible amount compared to the total heat radiation fr om the bulb.

The connection of the aluminum base to the glass is marginal. Any extra fo rce twisting it deforms it enough to leak air in which fries the element ev entually. Even a little bit is bad.

I have no evidence for this. It's what I've been told, and it may or may n ot be true. There does seem to be some experience with bulbs burning out f aster when people screw them in tighter, hence the recommendation to screw them in until they just light, then only an additional 1/8th turn. That's for incandescents, CFLs or LEDs might need a different torque.

[DerbyDad03]

te:

b failure. The only possible effect that I can think of due to socket corr osion is reduced heat transfer from the bulb to the material surrounding th e socket. That is a negligible amount compared to the total heat radiation from the bulb.

force twisting it deforms it enough to leak air in which fries the element eventually. Even a little bit is bad.

not be true. There does seem to be some experience with bulbs burning out faster when people screw them in tighter, hence the recommendation to scre w them in until they just light, then only an additional 1/8th turn. That' s for incandescents, CFLs or LEDs might need a different torque.

Speaking of light fixtures, incandescents and LEDs...

I have an old clip-on gooseneck fixture and decided you use it in the shop to get some direct light on my miter saw.

I installed a 100 W incandescent and aimed it right where I wanted the light. Even though the fixture was rated for 100W, I could feel the heat radiating from it and found the housing too hot to touch.

I decided to use a Cree 100W equivalent to eliminate the heat issues. Now the fixture won't stay aimed because the gooseneck can't support the weight of the Cree bulb.

I can't win. ;-)

[Ralph Mowery]

The alumminum base does not seal any vacuum in the glass. The glass is totally sealed except where the wires come out of the glass. You can take the base off and throw it away and connect to the wires and it would not burn out any faster.

[TimR]

a force twisting it deforms it enough to leak air in which fries the elemen t eventually. Even a little bit is bad.

ay not be true. There does seem to be some experience with bulbs burning o ut faster when people screw them in tighter, hence the recommendation to sc rew them in until they just light, then only an additional 1/8th turn. Tha t's for incandescents, CFLs or LEDs might need a different torque.

Huh. Never thought of that, but it makes sense. Then, I dunno, maybe you just shouldn't screw a bulb in too hard because it will get stuck.

[Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney]

extra force twisting it deforms it enough to leak air in which fries the element eventually. Even a little bit is bad.

or may not be true. There does seem to be some experience with bulbs burning out faster when people screw them in tighter, hence the recommendation to screw them in until they just light, then only an additional 1/8th turn. That's for incandescents, CFLs or LEDs might need a different torque.

- Huh. Never thought of that, but it makes sense. Then, I dunno, maybe you just shouldn't screw a bulb in too hard because it will get stuck.

I started checking this awhile back when buying them, thinking that the bulb might twist and cause the leads to touch and spark.

[Diesel]

The corrosion can cause a poor connection for the bulb. This can result in arcing, excessive resistance, and additional heat to build at the base of the bulb where semi fragile solder points exist just inside the bulbs base. Heat them up enough, the connections release. Bulb lights no more.

Did I mention the socket could be arcing and causing excessive resistance which is turning into excessive heat? It's not only going to heat the bulb screwed into it, it's going to pass that heat along the wires connecting it to your house's power; heating them a bit in the process too. Depending on the level of heat being produced, this could become an issue for those wires and/or something else inside your wall. It's also passing the additional heat from the bottom of the base to the bulb; heating very small solder points just inside the base (they connect the filament wires). it's using very little solder and won't take much effort to heat it enough to where it releases the fine wires going to it. Once it does, you'll have one of two things happening: A short circuit inside the bulbs base, OR, a disconnection without the short circuit going with it.

Either way, bulb lights no more. If the fixture is a half moon hanging from your ceiling, you're creating additional heat that has no realistic place to go, it's eventually going to eat the insulation off the wires feeding your light; when it does, you might see some black smoke plume out from underneath the fixture next time you try to turn it on.

Your breaker should also be tripping at this point, if it can. The half moon fixture is creating more than enough heat under good conditions to break down the insulation on the wires servicing it, you don't want to add to that by running worn out, seriously corroded sockets. You're making the power supply work a little harder to push the volts to the light. you're making additional heat as you do this. Heat to a point is okay, beyond that point, it's not okay anymore.

The OP has already blasted it with wd40 and it only loosened another part of the fixture. That socket's in poor condition. I wouldn't advise using it. I'd replace it at this point, as I wrote to the original poster. Corrosion mixed with electricity causes higher resistance, more heat, less usable voltage. It's a no win.

[TimR]

I gotta throw the BS flag on this.

I've never seen an example of a bulb arcing in the socket and I don't think anybody else has either.

Bulbs most commonly blow when first turned on, when the filament is cold and you get the maximum current through the weakest point. You often hear the pop.

[DerbyDad03]

How would you *see* the arcing between the bulb base and the socket?

Do you check every socket after a bulb has blown with such minute scrutiny that you can say that the arcing did not occur with 100% confidence?

I am *not* saying that the arcing occurs. I am simply saying that your statement "I've never seen an example" does not mean that Diesel's description is BS.

"Commonly" does not mean 100% of the time. You are not wrong in what you say, but once again it does not disprove what Diesel's says in the specific "corroded socket" situation.

Tires "commonly" go flat because of an object has pierced the material that keep the air in, but that doesn't disprove the statement that "tires go flat when there is a bad seal between the bead and rim."

[hrhofmann]

There can be arcing, that is why some of the new GFCI units have arc detection built in. Arc detection is mandatory for some circuits, as far as I have heard about the latest version of the National Electric Code.

[TimR]

ction built in. Arc detection is mandatory for some circuits, as far as I h ave heard about the latest version of the National Electric Code.

Not on lighting circuits.

Where are you going to get an arc in a light bulb base?

There is too much metal to metal contact on the threads, it's just not goin g to happen. It would have to be completely corroded all the way around an d then have one gap. It defies common sense. But that's where the corrosi on or gunk or whatever it is that makes the bulb stick in the socket is.

I could see a possible arc between tip of the bulb and bottom contact when screwing the bulb in hot. Sometimes you'll get a blink when doing that slo wly. But if your bulb were doing that in use, you'd see it going on and of f.

One thing that definitely happens when you screw a bulb in too hard is you flatten that bottom tab out. That bulb may work but the next one often doe sn't. You have to take a popsicle stick or something similar and bend it b ack out.

When a bulb blows there is an arc at the break in the filament. An arc has a negative resistance curve but there's a built in fuse or it would always trip the breaker.

[Diesel]

Your experience concerning the subject is? My post is based on years of first hand experience with it, that's why I asked what yours is. When you're doing electrical work, especially troubleshooting, you run into all kinds of interesting things.

I see. How many bulbs/fixtures would you say you've serviced? How many bulbs have you actually examined to see what might have burned them up? You've never experienced a cheap fixture (or a really old one) that has a tendency of burning bulbs out prematurely due to shoddy wiring and/or a generally bad design?

You've never observed corroded connections causing arcing and premature failures? How much outside wiring experience would you say you had?

[Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney]

TimR

LOL!! Thanks for that! I needed a good laugh after a long day at the salt mine. I will definitely put this line to good use.

[TimR]

Now that I've questioned it, you're attacking me.

That IS the way the internet works. But it's not the way intelligent people support their position.

Where is your evidence for your claims in that very very long post of yours?

[DerbyDad03]

You didn't "question it". You said it was BS. You launched the first salvo.

"I never seen it and I don't think anybody else has either." How much intelligence did it take to put that proclamation in writing?

[Diesel]

I didn't think urls supporting what I thought was common knowledge amongst some home owners and electricians alike was necessary.

If you insist though. (You could easily find this on duckduckgo or google)

They don't go into intimate details discussing the problems you can run into, aside from the bulb getting stuck!, but, you can spend a little more time on google if you'd like and find articles that do discuss the heat buildup/premature death of bulbs as a result of being run in corroded sockets.

Bad connections create excesssive heat when used. Excessive heat over time causes damage. Leading upto premature bulb failure.

Your idea of questioning something differs from mine. :)

I was asking some questions, but, certainly not attacking you while doing so. Any particular reason you neglected to answer any of them?

I don't recall the post being all that long...

58 lines first post, 52 second post...

The OPs is most likely badly corroded... the bulb seems to really be stuck inside it. Unwilling to budge according to his last post. the fixture itself internally is willing to move a bit, but the bulb still isn't. the socket is done man. replace it. Depending on the age of the fixture itself, I'd consider replacing the entire thing rather than focusing on the socket. It's upto the OP though.

The base (not the tip) if wired properly will be the neutral line. If it's badly corroded, excessive heat will be generated when running the bulb. This can lead to premature bulb death as I originally stated. Anywhere you have current flowing with a bad connection is going to make excessive heat. A little probably won't do much harm. over time, it'll get worse if something isn't done about it and the little will turn into enough to cause problems.

If you require more 'proof' consult with a licensed electrician and/or use a search engine. I do apologize in advance for assuming this was common knowledge. That was my bad.

[Bob Simon]

This is OP. Parts of the original bulb base appeared to be welded to the s ocket. In trying to free it, I tore loose strips and chunks of the base bu t the rest remained in the socket.

Went to HD and bought two hanging exterior lamps for under $40 each and ins talled them last week. The new lamps look nice but wife wishes the balcony lamps matched the ones on the front porch. I pleaded "function over aesth etics", which is almost a running joke between us after 30 years of marriag e. (And yes DD03, she did help me find the breaker.)

[Diesel]

You've heard of arc welding right? [g]

You may want to apply a small amount of dielectric grease around the base of the bulbs. It'll make changing them out later, much easier. As well as reduce chances of corrosion becoming an issue later on.