I've seen some of Salstrom's videos. He does very neat work. In one video, his sister was singing in the next room and she came over to where he was working to apologize for messing up his video. She's a cutie.
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It's UF-B I'm virtually positive...altho I didn't climb the loft to go look at the jacket on the leftover roll end.
Would be a pretty long conduit run for what would be remote chance of doing anything to the buried section; it's at least 24" (I know cuz had to dig up the one failure in the shop supply line that's parallel in same trench has house that far before they split).
The only reason hit this is the conduit from the box is, imo, way too short which is why I'm convinced Dad didn't do it...everywhere else on the place the conduit extends down to almost the bottom of the trench or may even have an elbow at the bottom to make the transition...so that's what I was expecting.
I am surprised the PoCo connected to it.
340.12 Uses Not Permitted. Type UF cable shall not be used as follows: (1) As service-entrance cableWe did 150' for a golf bathroom at my wife's club
The service isn't fused at the xformer either, is it?
Huh. I thought that was what "feeder" meant.
I'll have to see if I can tell for sure now out of curiosity--maybe I'm wrong and it was/is USE.
As far as the co-op, they had nothing to do with it -- Dad (or a contractor, I'm not sure since I wasn't here) did everything on the house side of the meter...the service has been here since '48 altho I think I recall they put in a new transformer when we built the feedlots and added the feed mill in the back of the barn and added the new silo with its unloader in the '58-59 era...that's when the "new" overhead feeds to the barn, silo and grain elevator across the driveway were installed.
Was going to say the house was still on the overhead feed, but it's possible on thinking about it that that is when this feed was run, too; I can't think of specific pictures of that era that do show the overhead run to the house any longer...
It was originally wired for the Delco 32V DC windcharger system when built in '15/'16. Got REA hookup in '48. Dad gutted the house to exterior wall studs and rewired completely in late 70s/early 80s. I had been thinking that is when the underground feed went in, but I'm now thinking that wasn't so but was about 20 year prior.
Think this would be double that anyway (altho I haven't actually stepped it off, there's a sizable chunk of yard out that way as is in all directions. Of course, when there's about 30A out of the quarter for the farmstead, wasn't much point in cramping things... :)
The windcharger tower sat pretty close to the house so it wouldn't have been too bad...Dad took it and the old windmill tower down while doing the rest of the cleanup around the place after sold our little house I grew up in when finished and moved into the big house. It was then moved to town...it's third site; it was moved from west of town when US Army Air Corps built the B25 training airbase during war...
Anyway, am diverging far too far... :)
I do have to admit I wasn't aware there was a difference between a "feeder" and a "service entrance" cable...so learned something new to me.
So, inquiring minds and all that -- "why and what's the real difference between the two?"
Fused? No.
Breaker. Yes.
3M makes a couple products that may be useful
I have used both of them. Both have a mystical ability to get on everything, including screwdrivers in your basement.
Thanks...the 3M product particularly would be handy. My looking and found it...
What kind of shelf life does it have, you have any idea?
Certainly listed for purpose is good; I think the fix I used will probably last my remaining lifetime as that stuff is pretty resiliant. Iffen I were ambitious-enough, could uncover that location and clean it back up and add some on top.
I do have a spot in that feed to the waterer in the south lot that still need to get back to and splice--I tapped into the other side of the 240 feed to get it back on last winter but never got to fixing the other side--if this side were to fail, I'd be stuck which would not be good come winter time and need the water.
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No. There is some protection at the primary of the transformer but the secondary has no protection until you get to the service disconnect enclosure. (the protection is for the transformer, not the customer) The utility should be able to tell you what your (momentary) available fault current is but it is going to be thousands of amps. The limiting factor might be the size of your service drop. A single phase service on a 50KVA pole pig will usually be in the range of 14ka but they are really supposed to give you a calculated result..
Art 100 definition "Feeder. All circuit conductors between the service equipment, the source of a separately derived system, or other power supply source and the final branch-circuit overcurrent device."
Basically think of it as the wires between the main panel and a sub panel but that sub panel could be what you think of as the main if the service disconnect is outside. The most notable difference is a 120/240 feeder will be 4 wires where the service conductors are 3. (shared neutral and ground) If you want to get more technical the service conductors run from the transformer and the meter, Service entrance conductors run from the meter to the service disconnect and if the service conductors are underground, we call it a service lateral.
Well, there is a a disconnect at the pole that is where these run from to the main inside the house. So what does that make it?
This was all done long before anybody ever heard of running four wires for anything. I don't know what Code revision introduced that, but certainly wasn't around in 1958-59 when is what I now think is when this was laid.
Now I am curious, though...will have to see if can actually find that old roll or see if can see enough on the ends in the box at one end or or the other.
I suspect if it should have been USE then that's probably what it is; I just thought as above that would be the same as a feeder.
I still don't understand why there need be two separate cable types for the purpose, though.
Is the an over current device there? If so it is a feeder but it should be 4 wires these days. Prior to the 96 code, you could get away with 3.
I guess the wire companies want to stock a lot of different products.
Yes, there's breaker there...forget just what it's sized at.
Again, we're talking late 50s based on the breakers that are there; even if Dad pulled new feed when he did the remodel that would have still predated the '96 Code revision by 20 years.
You think of current Code and new construction...there's nothing at all new on this place; the latest building is the double car garage and it was built around 1950.
The elevator was first building on the place starting 1912-1914, house built 15-16, barn went up as soon after WW I armistice was signed when rationing of lumber was lifted...machine shed dates from the 20s, farrowing house last in late 30s.
Oh--take it back -- the well house dates from early '60s--it's almost brand new! :)
Anyway, so my thinking is OK -- it _is_ a feeder...but it ain't a-gonna' be sprouting any fourth wire! :)
Thanks for the education...as always.
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An important difference, like I thought a "service" is not fused. At least not on the service size, though according to Fretwell there is a fuse on the primary side, which makes sense. Still since a given transformer typically serves more than one service, you could apparently put many times the current rating of the service conductors through it before it blows. Probably not much of an issue, since if something happens, a direct short is probably far more likely, which I guess would blow the xformer fuse before damage was done to the conductors.
The purpose of the fuse in the primary of the transformer is to protect the main line from being overloaded. While the power company would like to save the transformer, the main thing is not to damage the main line and put many out of power. Chances are that if there was a direct short in one of the secondary lines it would blow that fuse before the transformer went bad. Wiring can often stand a very high overload if the time period is short. Fuses are usually designed to blow faster the higher the overload.
Some transformers, especially in cities feed several houses. I lived in the county but there were several houses close together. The power transformer fed 4 houses. During a lightning storm the transformer blew for some reason. With surge supressors on much of my house, all that was damaged was the supressors and the oven. The built in oven only blew an internal fuse and surge supressor in it. Several of the neighbors lost their TV sets and a few other devices.
It is still legal, being pre existing. You should have at least 3 ground electrode systems, one at the service disconnect and one at the main building along with one at each out building. That is particularly important if you are running 3 wire feeders.
The OC device on the primary of the transformer will be about 150% of the transformer rating and of no help at all for a fault at the customer end of the drop. As I said before, Available Fault Current will be way up in the thousands off amps. Typical service rated breakers are rated at 10,000-25,000 amps AIC. It will be printed on the breaker. Usually the 10k AIC breakers are only 100a and in a lot of cases, may not actually be enough for the computed AIC. That is why they changed the rules in 2005. The AIC is supposed to be on a label on the service although I still seldom see it in residential. PoCos usually just provide a rounded off guess based on transformer size instead of a real calculation. If that transformer gets changed, it is likely to be what the PoCo had on the truck, not necessarily what they had there before or even what they really need. For a while here, all new transformers were 50 KVA. I am not sure why but I guess it is what they had. There was a field full of them up at the power station at the end of my street.
I will ask my PoCo buddy about the primary protection the next time I see him.
Yes, agreed and way stuff is/was run...there are many places on the farmstead...barn, elevator, silo, machine shed, two shop buildings, hog house, ... to name the largest.
Actually, we have two service drops--the house and most everything is on one; the other is the one put in when had both houses occupied and separate utilities. When the original windmill gave out and drilled the new well, it was more convenient to run from the west line so it and the south shop, machine shed are fed from it. As noted above, the "little" house was sold and moved to town so there's only those loads on that meter.
But, does make putting in backup genset a pain because have to have two disconnects if want water (which w/ the cattle is the higher priority than heat in the house would be). :)
I dunno about that side definitely, either...the breaker in the connection there only protects the feeder _TO_ the house, indeed.
There's about 20-30 ft between the pole the xfmr hangs on to the service/meter pole, the SE goes down the meter pole thru the meter then into junction box where the house feed ties to that disconnect and runs back up the pole where there's connections to the SE to barn, elevator and over to the silo...there's fused disconnect on it (silo) that then feeds the waterer heaters plus convenience outlets/lights for the feedlot/corrals/working chute area.
Places aren't that close together out here that one transformer does multiple farmsteads and power demands are fairly substantial in comparison to normal residence.
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