snaking bathroom sink drain didn't help much

[JJ]

I have a bathroom sink drain that has very often run slow to a stop over the years. Many times in the past, I was able to plunge it and it would run fine again, but for stubborn times I have one of those smal1 25 foot drill or hand operated snakes. Since the pipes are old, I always used the snake manually. I used it again today when the plunging and Liquid Plumber didn't help, but, despite using the full 25 foot length, the drain is still running slowly. Better than not at all, but it should be running much faster after snaking. Any ideas why snaking didn't help that much this time? Thanks.

[Retirednoguilt]

Maybe you've got an obstructed vent in the sink itself or an obstructed vent stack in the drain line?

[JJ]

Hmmm, that's very interesting. I looked up some info on vents. Never even considered that could be an issue. Well, nothing abnormal is going on, no rotten egg smells, gurgling, etc and all other drains run normally. I suppose I could climb the roof and see if there's vacuum, but I am on the only one in the house.

[JJ]

I have an idea. If I tie a plastic bag around the vent (using a bungee or similar stretch rope to hold the bag around the vent pipe), flush the commode, and then watch the bag from the ground, will it be pulled toward the vent? Is it hazardous to leave in place for this one time since I wouldn't be able to remove it until back on the roof?

[Retirednoguilt]

I didn't suggest that a trap was dry. Air vents aren't to prevent sewage smells from coming back up through the drains. Traps do that, unless the drain has not been used for so long that all the water in the trap evaporates or the trap develops a leak that lets the trap's water out.

If all your other drains run normally, I'd focus first on the small hole near the top of the sink known as the overflow drain hole. That hole is supposed to connect to the drain pipe at the bottom of the sink via a channel inside the body of the sink. It serves 2 purposes. It helps prevent overflow from an over-filled sink, and allows the sink to drain faster by providing a local escape path for the air in the drain pipe between the sink and the trap. If it is even partially clogged, the sink is likely to drain more slowly. Look on the web for different ways to unclog a sink's overflow drain hole. It's worth a try to find out if doing so resolves your problem.

[Marilyn Manson]

Just tossing out ideas...

Are you sure that the snake went where you wanted it to go?

Even though you got 25' down the drain, the snake itself might have found a vent or connection to another pipe. You may have gotten some of the clog before the snake wandered off on it's own, thus your "better than not at all" results

You may also have just pushed stuff out of the way and not really cleared it, thus you "better than not at all" results. Might be worth another snake session or two.

Are there any other fixtures that use that same drain that aren't having any trouble? That might help you isolate the clog. i.e. you might not even need 25', meaning you didn't really clear the clog completely.

Can you considered a drain blaster or are you afraid that your pipes are too old?

P.S. Overuse of chemical cleaners, especially on older pipes, may be detrimental to the pipe's longevity.

[hubops]

OK, you twisted my arm - I'll share my < patent pending >

bathroom sink/tub/shower tool for removing hair ... Find one of those ~ 18 - 24 inch zip ties < cable tie >

and slice a few angled cuts into the pointy end - which you will stick down the drain and jig around until the cuts snag some hair and you pull it out and carefully grab the hair and pull out the big wad of hair that the snagged hairs are attached to. Repeat a few times ; rinse off the magic tool for future use. Warning - the stuff that clogs drains is disgusting - it's not my fault. John T.

[JJ]

Thanks, I appreciate the thoughts. It's quite possible that the snake didn't go exactly where it needed to. It's hard to do this manually, for whatever reason, and I don't like doing it. I can only feed small amounts at a time and also retract just tiny amounts while winding. I'm sure having the trap in place doesn't help which makes it all that much tougher. The snake actually completely exited the winder today and I had to find out on Youtube how to rethread it. I've never gone that far in the past.

I'll have to look into the drain blaster, thanks. Well, the house is about 65 years old with cast iron and terra cotta main lines. The drains have always been troublesome because the developers planted trees right over the sewer line. Fortunately, I treat the main twice a year with copper sulfate and that has kept the roots away for 6 years now.

[Bob]

Between the headache of leaves in the gutters, raking leaves, picking up sticks before I could mow, the threat of a tree falling on the roof, shade causing moss to grow on the roof, mildew on the siding, roots buckling the driveway and root damage to sewer line, I had all the gobdammed trees removed.

Expensive but problem solved!

[Marilyn Manson]

Removing our trees would cause me bigger problems *inside* the house than any problems they cause outside, if you catch my drift.

[rbowman]

Does it tee into another line? I'm surprised you can get 25' of snake without hitting something.

[Retirednoguilt]

We solved those same problems by moving to a condo. We added up all the costs of repairing/maintaining the gutters, leaves, roof, driveway, etc. compared to the cost of our condo monthly association fees and given that at our condo we don't pay separately for trash collection, hot and cold water, or for phone/cable tv/ internet, and we have cheaper electrical bills on account of better HVAC and insulation, and cheaper condo owners insurance than homeowners policy, and only gave up about

150 square ft. of living space, we actually are saving more than $200/month and all the hassles of owning a single family detached house. Furthermore, we have the great convenience of excellent public transportation only 1 block from our entryway instead of 1.5 miles away from our old residence. We now spend all our time doing what we like rather than doing what we needed to do to maintain the house.

[Marilyn Manson]

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but for some us doing the maintenance

*is* what we like to do. I love puttering around my own house, fixing/changing things as I see fit.

SWMBO loves her flower gardens and I like building flower boxes and outdoor stuff for her. I guarantee that some of the things we've done to our yard wouldn't be allowed if there was an HOA or condo association. Nothing garish...we constantly get compliments from our neighbors, but from what I've heard about "associations", I'm sure that we don't fit the mold. Having to get everything approved before hand? No thanks.

There were some posts a few weeks ago from a condo-guy that isn't allowed to change a plumbing shut-off. He has to call - and pay for - a licensed plumber. No thanks.

I'm pretty sure I'd lose my workshop, eliminating my woodworking hobby. Is that true? Now that would really suck.

[trader_4]

What other access points are there for this line, like cleanout plugs in the basement? What other fixtures go to the same path that this water has to take? If those work, then you know the pipes are OK from that point on, the problem must be ahead of those. If there is a cleanout plug you can access in a suspect area, it's going to be a lot better and easier to work the snake from there. Could also put a 30 gal trash can under it to see if water then flows freely with a plug out, ruling out the path from the sink to that point.

[Retirednoguilt]

And I can't disagree with anything you said. You're right about the existence of condo bylaws, rules, etc., which vary both by legal jurisdiction and by condo. I didn't mean to imply that any other housing arrangement is bad or ill considered. I was just describing what works well for me and my wife. Different strokes for different folks. Before we bought, we carefully reviewed the bylaws, regulations, and most importantly, the current financial accounts and financial history of the condo. All was totally acceptable to us. No one should buy in a condo without doing those things.