Sink fixture not apporved in my State - Suggestions

[george.bozovic]

Hi,

The significant others have choosen a regular sink, I think by an Italian company, in a local store in Boston where I live. Everything is fine, it fits the dimensions, but our plumber found out that is not an list of Massachusetts approved list of residential plumbing fixtures. The sink is sold in MA, it has a distributor in Chicago, yet we cannot install it.

Is there any way around this? My plumber said he will not install it if it's not on the list because of the plumbing inspector. Given this is NOT a saftey issue, I find it obscene that some lists what items can and cannot go into MY home.

We did pull a permit for the new bathroom addition project. We also had problems finding an "approved" bidet. I am getting kind of sick of this permit issues.

Thanks!

[JoeSpareBedroom]

- I'd satisfy my curiosity by contacting the demons who create the approved list. Find out what criteria are involved in approving a friggin' sink.

- Install it yourself. Hit the library for some plumbing books - the kind with lots of pictures for the do-it-yourselfer. Then, open the yellow pages phone book and find a real plumbing store. Go there for the pipe fitting parts. You'll get help that you're unlikely to receive at a place like Home Depot.

[Eric]

I'd second Joe's advice - do it yourself - with one big caveat.

Thanks to your friendly local legislators (with assistance from plumber's unions I suspect), it's illegal for individuals to do *any* of thier own plumbing work in MA. Technically you have to hire a licensed plumber even to replace a faucet.

Many people deal with this by "forgetting" to pull a permit so Big Brother isn't aware of what they're doing, but unfortunately that option isn't available to you now.

Only thing I can think of is find the cheapest sink that will fit the opening, have the plumber install it, get the project inspected & signed off and the permit closed, then replace said sink yourself with the one you really want.

Or petition your legislators to try to get the regulations changed... good luck with that!

Me

[JoeSpareBedroom]

What???? Don't they sell plumbing parts at hardware stores? Who do they think is buying them? Parts collectors?

[Doug Miller]

Of course there is -- move out of the People's Republic of Massachusetts. Here in Indiana, we're still a free people.

[Eric]

Years ago, when I used to shop at HD in Somerville, they had signs all around the plumbing department indicating that it was not legal to do your own plumbing work in MA.

Also around 1996 when I was adding a 2nd story to my house in Woburn I had a discussion about it with the building inspector. He told me in no uncertain terms that I could not do any of my own plumbing work, it had to be done by a licensed plumber, and that it wasn't a local regulation but a state one.

Eric

[dpb]

Check w/ department who issued building permit and find out what it takes to get it approved or on the list. I suspect unless there is something really odd about it it is only not on a list because it is a newer product than the list and whatever it takes to get it approved is only a formality. If this vendor is selling product in MA and the distributor is stocking it, they're not going to do so if the required permitting process isn't in place -- they wouldn't waste the time/money.

The only snafu I could see is time if this is some really localized code thing as opposed to actually being something at the State level -- which I kinda' suspect although that is speculation not being resident.

Depends on how badly you want this, I think, altho I understand the frustration factor -- I'd be throwing hammers, etc., too... :)

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[JoeSpareBedroom]

Hopefully, nobody's silly enough to get a permit to change a faucet.

[dpb]

Well, a little poking around at

found the following FAQ on homeowner remodeling/building...

Q: I am planning to hire a contractor to perform work on my home. Do I need to hire a contractor with a CSL?

A: A homeowner may choose to hire anyone he/she wishes to perform work on his\\her own home, or a homeowner may choose to perform work his\\herself. However, before making any decisions, please consider the following information:

If you choose to perform building construction work on your own home or if you choose to hire unlicensed, unregistered persons, you must secure a permit under what is called the homeowner exemption (see 780 CMR, Section 108.3.5 below). In doing so, you assume all responsibility for the project (i.e. ensuring the end product conforms with all pertinent codes, laws and ordinances) and you forfeit any and all rights under the CSL and HIC programs. ...

So, looks to me like you _can_ (up to a point -- it points out that you do have to have a licensed person for major structural elements or projects over a given size plus a lot of other stuff) but you have to jump through hoops to do so within the rules and nobody professional is going to run any risk of helping to do that and perhaps jeopardize something in their accreditation...

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[gfretwell]

I bet it is the flow rate in the faucet that is "illegal". Have the plumber put a cheap faucet in there for the inspector and then call another plumber back to "repair" it later. (or do it yourself).

[Chris Friesen]

Why would the flow rate of a *faucet* have anything to do with whether the *sink* is listed?

Chris

[dadiOH]

As a displaced Hoosier, I agree. Perhaps they should give seminars...

[RicodJour]

Some of the designer lavs don't have overflows. All those spiffy looking glass, copper and stone sinks are just bowls with a hole in the bottom. I wonder if that's the stumbling block with the fixture listing.

R

[gfretwell]

Because that is the latest "save the world" agenda.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Reading comprehension problems are tragic.

- The OP is talking about a sink, not a faucet.

- There are actually places in this country where there are real water shortages, so conserving water's not a bad idea.

[dpb]

[e-mail] wrote: ...

Online search engine for products.

Amazing!!! Makes one glad to not be in the Commonwealth of MA. :)

Searched and it implies the online list is up-to-date and if it ain't there, it ain't approved. Didn't see anything about how to request approval for a nonlisted device...

And, of course, the plumber assuming he is licensed can't afford to violate local Code/regulation so can't blame him...

Still hard to understand the disconnect between the list and stocking distributor -- unless they're doing business out of state at a high enough level to justify the inventory costs seems like a losing proposition for them...

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[JoeSpareBedroom]

Say what you will about waterboarding and other forms of torture, but I think that in this case, it would be appropriate if it would get a few legislators to explain why they voted for this nonsensical law.

Of course, this being a newsgroup, it's virtually guaranteed that the OP will ***NOT*** write his elected slob to find out why he/she/it voted for this.

[dpb]

Oh, that's easy -- they're protecting the environment/consumer/children/constituents/etc./etc./etc. I'd wager OP particular slob probably wasn't even in office yet when the stuff got started and it simply fits w/ the general mentality of the area that somebody has to look out for "everyman".

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Lately, I think "stupid" or "bribed" when politicians do ridiculous things. I wonder if that sounds cynical.

[dpb]

I operate under the "never attribute to malice what can reasonably be explained by stupidity" or somesuch similar wording...

I really think for the most part they're trying to do "the right thing" but everything has the law of unforeseen consequences and what starts out as a simple, relatively rational attempt to do something like conserve water (I'm thnking of the low-flow fixtures/low-quantity flush) ends up growing into a multi-headed monster. W/ a detailed history, wouldn't surprise me at all if that were how this started...

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