Roofing prices

[George]

Or if you removed the one sided business is always evil idea it simply means the contractor will at least be covered for the materials should the customer decide not to pay.

[DerbyDad03]

One contractor that I got an estimate from included a 13 page document listing the addresses, the year of the job and the shingle color of the roof for jobs they had done in recent years. With hundreds of houses listed I have to assume that it wasn't scrubbed to ensure glowing references. Maybe some really bad ones were left off, but there sure were a lot of houses that they didn't mind us checking out our own.

I didn't choose them for other reasons, but SWMBO and I did use their list to help us choose a roof color.

I suggested to the guy that I picked that he should do something similar since I was certainly impressed with the list that the other guy had given me. Not only did it give me confidence in his work, but it really helped to see shingles on an actual roof instead of just on the sample boards.

As far as payment, my contractor was satisfied with payment upon completion for a job that included a tear-off, roof, ridge vents, gutters, full soffit cuts and vinyl soffit covers. He even came up into my attic to make sure I knew how to install the rafter baffles correctly to take full advantage of the soffit vents he was going to cut.

I'm a PITA and ask a lot of questions. I was very happy to hear him tell me to ask anything I wanted because he wanted to be sure that there was no misunderstanding as to what was going to be done and why. He said "When I'm done with this job I don't want to come back unless you have more work for me."

[mark]

Ya know, if you figure the hourly rate, these guys are making 200-300/hr for basically driving in a few 1000 nails, approx 9,000 in your case, and tossing old shingles in a dumpster. Ridge vents, crickets, valleys etc require some special knowledge and skills but with a little research those can be installed properly. The critical issue with roofing is weather and therefore timing. If you can remove and dry-in one side or both with some durable underlayment (2-3x the cost of tar paper), you can take all summer to install the new shingles. Heck, you could even buy a compressor, nail gun and still be $1,000's ahead.

If you think it is too demanding physically hire a young helper who is willing to work for a FAIR wage - craigslist, local trade schools etc. I did my 25 sq roof with 2 valleys 3 yrs ago for under $2000 including a helper I paid $400 for 20 hrs work. Got lucky with the 35 yr arch shingles on clearance for $40/sq

Of course, this is all assuming you have a low slope, simple roof as most ranch style houses do.

And don't even think about not getting rooftop delivery.

Interesting to note that company C said you didn't need a new roof but you are still going ahead?

[DerbyDad03]

re: "Ya know, if you figure the hourly rate, these guys are making

200-300/hr for basically driving in a few 1000 nails, approx 9,000 in your case, and tossing old shingles in a dumpster."

Just checking:

Did you factor in their overhead costs such as insurance, the dumpster, the maintenance of their trucks, compressors and nail guns, certification for some of the newer "roofing systems", time spent ordering materials, estimating jobs that don't turn into contracts, etc.?

I'm not planning on checking your math, but it's a bit more complicated than (Contract Price minus Material Costs)/Hours Spent On Roof.

[Ed Pawlowski]

The best time to get a new roof is just before you "need" one. I know I could have stretched min another year or two, but with no leaks I have no wood damage.

[Rebel1]

Company C specified CDX 1/2". All companies want to use 1-1/2" nails. Nothing about plywood clips, whatever they are.

Welcome to Noo Joisey.

[Rebel1]

I don't know what you mean by rooftop delivery.

The most recent roof was installed in 1997. But I'm uncomfortable about the soft spot and the raindrops that enter my fireplace chimney, despite having a chimney cap. I can lay a garden hose near the chimney and water will eventually enter. I've painted multiple layers of roofing tar around all three sides of the chimney, and for a while no water entered during heavy rains. Recently, it started again.

I suppose I could have the roof repaired in the area around the chimney. Color match probably won't be perfect.

R1

>

[DerbyDad03]

See here:

[DerbyDad03]

Rebel1 wrot

Rooftop delivery is when they bring a truck with a conveyor belt or crane and place the bundles of shingles and other material right up on the roof.

One roofer who gave me an estimate was almost 2x the other guys. Even his plywood was ridiculously more than everyone else's. When I asked him why his prices for just about everything was so more than everyone else's, his answer was that his overhead was much higher.

He pulled out his smart phone and started showing me pictures of all of his trucks and a fancy lift for getting material on the roof and other stuff.

When I asked him if my roof was going to be installed better or last longer because of all his fancy equipment, he sort of stuttered out a "Well, no."

When I told him I couldn't think of a reason why I would want to pay extra for the same job just to help him pay for his fancy equipment, he packed up his pictures and left.

[krw]

That's really odd. Many (most?) building supply houses will deliver to the roof for a small fee. Why in hell would a roofer want his own equipment?

[Ed Pawlowski]

I can see a big operation that does commercial and industrial jobs justifying it. Buy in bulk and better control at the job site.

Typical house roofer? Not so much.

[DerbyDad03]

He showed me a picture of one of these...

[krw]

Looks like a toy he's trying to justify with a business. That's not even the right tool for the job.

[DerbyDad03]

Maybe it wasn't exactly a scissor lift, but it was definitely a rolling machine with a lift.

In any case, it was stupid of him to try and justify his higher prices by showing me equipment that even he admitted won't make my roof any better.

For what it's worth, the family owned company has been in business in my area for well over 30 years, so lots of people must think that their higher prices are worth it. Not me.

[bob haller]

I have my own small business servicing office machines, my prices are low because my overhead is low:)

I charge 100 bucks a hour, for time actually on job.....

GBC my largest cometitor charges $317.00 for the first hour within 25 miles of pittsburgh...

[Rebel1]

Here's the proposal:

==========================================================================

Job Description: 130 MPH Wind Rated Roof Shingles.

1. Remove existing layers of roof shingles on entire roof section.

1. Install F41/2 metal edging into all gutter edges.

2. Install GAF Weather Watch ice shield into gutter edges up roof three feet, roof valleys, roof flashings.

1. Apply GAF Shingle Mate roof underlayment to expose sheathing.

2. Install GAF Pro Starter into all gutters and rake edges.

1. Reshingle roof using self sealing class A fiberglass roof shingle, ASTMD3462 compliant, applied with 1 ½? roofing nails ? six nails per shingle. GAF Lifetime Timberline HD

2. Replace all existing vent pipe flanges with new aluminum flanges and seal.

1. Install a perma-boot vent pipe flange counter flashing over new aluminum vent pipe flange.

2. Frame a chimney cricket behind existing addition roof chimney area. Re-flash existing chimney. Flashing color to be determined with shingle color chosen.

1. Re-nail and reseal all other existing flashings accordingly.

2. Install GAF TImbertex Hip and Ridge Capping System to all roof peaks.

1. Clean and tighten all gutters and leader pipes.

2. Re-move all job-related debris. Either dumpster drop-off in driveway or A-TOP to self haul debris.

NOTE: Township building permit will be filed by A-Top. Permit fee not included. NOTE: Any plywood that needs to be replaced will be an additional cost, CDX ½? $50.00 per sheet. NOTE: There is a 10 year warranty on labor; The non pro-rated period of

50 years on material, with the GAF Smart Choice System Plus Warranty. NOTE: WE ARE MASTER ELITE CERTIFIED BY GAF CORPORATION. We propose to hereby furnish material and labor. Complete in accordance with specifications above. Employees are insured with Workers Comp and General Liability Insurance. A 2% service charge for unpaid balances over 30 days. There is a $30 Fee for returned checks. A 3% fee will be charged for all payments made by credit card. Note: This proposal may be withdrawn by us if not accepted within 35 days. Estimates are no charge for 1st visit & one revision, insurance revisions/break downs not included. A-Top reserves the right to charge $25 for each estimate beyond the 1st revision. This will be deducted from project total at time of commitment. A-Top will not communicate with insurance companies for any project until deposit and commitment is received from property owner. A-Top reserves the right to charge for any insurance claim resolutions at a cost of $75. This will be deducted from project total at time of commitment.

======================================================================

As a result of various replies to my original post, I sent estimator/owner this message:

======================================================================

These statements appears in your proposal:

NOTE: There is a 10 year warranty on labor; (It does not state if there is or is not proration on labor) The non pro-rated period of 50 years on material, with the GAF Smart Choice System Plus Warranty. (I don't understand this; it is grammatically wrong.)

Also, what is your response to adding the following statements to the proposal?

1. Any work not completed on day the project starts shall be completed the following day, weather permitting.

1. All workers shall be A-Top employees covered by Workers Comp and General Liability Insurance.

2. Installation of new roof shall comply with ===================================================================

His reply:

Ray-

1. The Warranty is call GAF Weather Stopper Systems Plus Ltd. Warranty.

1. The labor warranty is not prorated.

2. A-Top has been in business right here in Manalapan for the past 26 years. We have NEVER started a job, and left a site, our policy has always been to finish 1 job before starting another.

1. We can provide you with a Certificate of Insurance stating our coverage which includes liability and workers Comp.

2. Let me make this clear A-Top has successfully install THOUSANDS of roofs locally in the surrounding towns. If we were not installing roofs correctly we would not have a GAF Master Elite License. We are factory trained and continue to further our installation quality by participating with GAF on all/any available educating programs offered towards keeping our quality up to date and at its Best?.

====================================================================

While he responded to items 14 and 15, he didn't agree to add them to the proposal/contract.

I dropped in unannounced to the company's office. The owner was not there. I asked the clerk for three references. Said she couldn't do that because of some nonsense about privacy laws. I said show me the book, and I will randomly pick out names that you can call for permission to have the company release the phone numbers to me. Refused, again citing same nonsense about privacy laws.

So while the company is the lowest bidder, and the only one that inspected the roof and honestly stated that it didn't need replacement, I'm turned off because it didn't send me the quote until two days past the promised one, won't add clauses 14 and 15 to the contract, and won't give me references (maybe the owner would give them to me).

R1

[Doug]

I agree with you about the references. I live in Texas and I had no problem getting references and had someone around the block call me as a reference for their roofer. Of course maybe the laws are different in each state, I don't know.

[TomR]

My impression is that they provided a very thorough and specific written estimate, and they (in my opinion) patiently responded to the additional questions you posed etc. Their website indicates that they have been in business a long time at the same location, and the website provides a lot of information about them. You obtained several estimates and did a very thorough job in researching all of the details of this job. They are the only company that said that you don't necessarily need a new roof. And, somehow, they ended up bidding the lowest price for the job of the 3 estimates that you received -- even after one of the revised their estimate downward for you.

I think there is a limit to how much one can expect from any contractor in terms of specifying and meeting each and every detail of the job, scope of work, assurances, promises, guarantees, etc. To me, the estimate they provided, the follow-up answers that they provided to you, the fact that they have been in business for such a long time at the same location, and the added benefit that they ended up providing you with the lowest price all add up to one conclusion -- take them up on their offer and have them do the work.

[Ed Pawlowski]

His lawyer wrote the contract and he is probably advised not to make changes. Reputation counts more that the paper anyway.

Two days late with a proposal? If that is the worst thing to complain about, you did well.

I don't know about privacy laws in your state. I do know that without my permission, I don't want people calling me about a contractor.

If I was you, I'd accept it and move ahead. If I was the contractor, upon your next request for special handling, I'd tell you to F off and spend more money elsewhere.

[DerbyDad03]

...Proposal Snipped...

Let me make sure I understand the situation regarding references.

Are you saying that at this point they are they are refusing to supply any references?

I know that a few others have suggested that you are being unreasonable with your requests, but I'd be really concerned with any contractor that played the privacy card with regards to references. You would think that if they are really as good as they say they are, they'd be proud to give you the names of references.

You'd think that they would have a few customers who would have given them permission to use them as references and you'd think that the office staff would either have that list or would have contacted someone who did.