Looking for recommendations for a borate wood-preservative product meeting the following specs:
Easy to spray or brush-on exposed wood areas (before either closing up an are or before painting).
Long-lasting/non-leaching (as much as possible)
Safe and available to consumers
Ideally, inexpensive and widely-available
Also, is there a big difference among brands? I have heard people talk about Timbor whose active ingredient is Disodium Octaborate Tetrahydrate. There are other brands (eg. Borasol) that claim to be chemically identical. Does it matter which brand I buy or in the case of Timbor are you mostly paying for the name...
Some versions have ethelyene glycol which has its own pluses and minuses.
Or brew your own for less [from the net, not my personal recipe. No endorsement implied.]:
BORATE WOOD PRESERVATIVES:
COMMERCIAL AND HOME-BREWED
Commercial:
Tim-Bor®: Solid sodium octaborate; dissolves in water to make approx. a 10% solution containing 6.6% borate (B2O3); about $13/lb. Covers about 200 sq ft.
Bora-Care®: 40% solution of sodium octaborate in ethylene glycol; 27% borate content; $90/gal. for the concentrate.
Home-Brew Water Solution of Borates:
Based on U.S. Navy spec. of 60% borax-40% boric acid (this ratio gives the maximum solubility of borates in water);
#1. This is equiv. to Tim-Bor®... 6 parts of borax and 4 parts of boric acid.
To prepare one gallon of a 10% solution, start with an oversize container (larger than 1 gallon ) add 1 lb. of powder to appx 3 qts of water agitating until the powder has dissolved, then add additional water to end up with 1 gallon of mix. To prepare a 15% solution, add 1.5 lbs. of powder, then add the remainder of the water and mix as previously. Approximately 1 gallon of solution will be needed to treat 200 square feet of wood surface area. (Note: solutions should be used immediately and not stored.) .
EXAMPLE: Prepare 5 gallons of 10% solution:
Add four (4) gallons of clear, warm water to a six-gallon bucket.
Add five (5) lbs. of powder while gently stirring.
Add enough water to bring the final volume to 5 gallons, and continue to stir until all of the powder has dissolved.
Agitate the solution briefly at the beginning of each spray job, or after the solution has been standing for an extended period.
Do not spray or spill onto soil or foliage.
Apply two applications of a 10% solution to wood surfaces by brush or spray. Apply one application of a 15% solution to wood surfaces by brush or spray. Applications may be made to wood structures including decks, fences, steps, sheds, barns and other out-buildings.
Mix the ingredients and heat till boiling gently. Boil off water until a candy thermometer shows 260 F. This removes most of the water of crystallization in the borax.
This solution is stable at 40 F and has a borate content of 26%. This is equivalent to Bora-Care® at about $90/gal. for the concentrate. The concentrate must be diluted with an equal volume of water before being applied.
Application: Add 1 gallon of water to every gallon of concentrate and stir thoroughly until solution is completely uniform. Always use diluted within
24 hours after mixing. If kept for longer periods of time, the active ingredient can drop out of the solution.
Note: is toxic to plants and shrubbery; if necessary, cover plants, root systems and surrounding soil with plastic to avoid contamination. Apply only to bare wood. Remove any finish or water repellent coating before applying . Wood surfaces should be free of dirt and other contaminates. Apply diluted by spray or brush to all exposed wood surfaces. It may occasionally be necessary to apply more than one coat of to attain the recommended application rate. This is especially true for larger, smooth surfaced wood members. Wood surfaces should be allowed to dry for at least 2 hours between applications. Do not apply in the rain or snow. If inclement weather is expected, protect exposed treated surface with a plastic tarp for at least
24 hours after treatment. One gallon of concentrate will treat up to 800 board feet of wood. Only diluted should be applied to any wood surface. Prior to application, check wood surfaces for an existing water repellent finish by spraying a small amount of water onto the surface of the wood or logs. If the water beads up or is not absorbed into the wood, a finish is present which must be removed before applying the diluted solution.
Whats the scoop on this stuff. I knew an old guy that built houses that said that kept the bugs out and made the house fireproof. I always wondered if it really worked.
I don't know about fireproof, but applied properly it is a good cost-effective methd to treat for termites and other pests. Here [Hawaii] it is also used more and more in place of fumigation. That requires skilled application as spraying it all around is not nearly as effective as finding the active termite hole and injecting a drop or two of the stuff.
Whats the scoop on this stuff. I knew an old guy that built houses that said that kept the bugs out and made the house fireproof. I always wondered if it really worked.
What are the pluses/minuses of using ethylene glycol vs. water as the solvent? One thing I noticed is that the borate concentration is higher in the ethylene glycol since it seems that 10% is a saturated solution and
15% is supersaturated when water is the solvent.
Cool
Assuming there are advantages to ethylene glycol vs. water that justify Boracares high price and given that: - I can by Timbor relatively cheap ($10.86 for 1.5lbs) vs. $90/gal for Bora-Care - The recipe to make Bora-Care from scratch seems to be a bit of the pain with the need for Borax, Boric acid, and boiling off the water
Is there a compromise "recipe" where I would mix Timbor with ethylene glycol antifreeze rather than with water.
Since the concentrate is 26% and the reconstituted version is a 1:1 solution with water, that would imply that the solution has a borate concentration of 13% which I believe is equivalent to 1.3 pounds of Timbor per gallon. [based on common dilution of 1.5 lbs Timbor to 1 gallon of water to achieve a 15% borate solution]
If this works, it would be far simpler than boiling and would cost about $15/gallon (Timbor plus antifreeze).
Note: it is also not clear to me why you need to boil off the water if you are going to later reconstitute it with a 1:1 mix with water. Couldn't you just mix Borax, Bori Acid, antifreeze, and a lesser amount of antifreeze to make a full constituted solution to use when you are ready without any need for boiling other than maybe a little heating to help the borax dissolve at high saturation.
Instructions to boil water off and then add water make me doubt the wisdom of the advice.
I bought Borrada LP, a cheaper equivalent to Bora-Care. It's 40& borates, 40% propylene glycol, and 20% unnamed ingredients. For timbers where deep penetration is important, they recommend 1 part water to 1 part concentrate. For thinner wood, where there's less to penetrate, they recommend 2 parts water to 1 part concentrate. So one function of glycol is deeper penetration.
I've never tried to wash it off except when cleaning my equipment, but a day or so after treatment, it doesn't seem water soluble, as if I'd painted with clear latex paint. Perhaps some of the unnamed chemicals help it resist leaching.
I bought a gallon. I wiped out a nest by spraying a busy gallery (they apparently loved to drink it and take it to their nest), sprayed timbers where they lay on vulnerable sections of underpinning and pillars, and painted the wood frame of my cellar door, which could have served as a path for termites or carpenter ants from the ground into my house. That was years ago and I've had no trouble since. If I do, most of the concentrate is still in the can.
replying to E Z Peaces, ProdigalGypsy wrote: There are 2 sound chemical reasons for this process:
1) The increased temperature is required to increase the solubility of the borax/boric acid so that it all dissolves into the ethylene glycol.
2) You have to boil off the water to stabilize the compound for preservation. Once you dilute it again w/ water it only stays viable for about 24 hours (the same w/ the store-bought solution). The bonds that allow the water, glycol, and boron to penetrate the wood together break down, and you end up w/ the layers in the bottle. You can't just shake it up again to mix it again. Don't doubt the wisdom of "taking away water just to add it later;" Instant coffee lasts indefinitely, but try storing "instant coffee" that hasn't had the water taken away! :)
replying to blueman, ProdigalGypsy wrote: The reason is that there is plenty of hydrogen and oxygen ALL of the ingredients. To achieve a heat necessary to ensure complete solubility whilst simultaneously achieving a viable 1:1 H20 saturation would be incredibly hard to isolate (and may even be impossible if too much water vapor has released before
100% solubility is achieved). Having a recipe that accurately recreates a solution such as this that allows for identical preparation as the original is actually rather impressive. Having the water boiled off allows for long-term, stable storage. Even if you use the whole batch at once, I strongly recommend following the recipe for maximum effectiveness.
replying to ProdigalGypsy, Jonathan Cook wrote: So following the instructions and boiling and then adding water is best, but is it better to just mix timbor with water and use than it would be to take used antifreeze 50/50 ( water and antifreeze) and heat enough to dissolve timbor and spray on timbers while still hot? I have done this and I do not see any white crystals on the timbers like I do when I just use water and timbor so it would seem to me that it is staying dissolved and penetrating better with used antifreeze.
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