Re: Sharing well and pump--how much should we charge?

[hallerb]

> > > > > > JohnnieMarr wrote: > > > I share a well with my neighbor. �For both of us, the well and pump > > > were supplied by the developer who old us the land on which we built > > > last year. �Both houses use the well and pump, but only one house > > > supplies the electricity--and that's our house! �We agreed that we > > > would pay for the electricity along with the rest of our electricity, > > > but our neighbor should pay us half the cost of the electricity > > > required to run the pump. > > > that last sentence contains the answer. > > > how is this agreement spelled out, in legal terms? on your closing statement, on deed, > > gentlemen's handshake, what? > > > I would suggest you sit down with neighbor and spell out a simple paper where he > > agrees to pay you a monthly stipend which includes a future fee for not only the > > electric use (that can not be more than $15 per month) plus some amount for > > depreciating the hardware, plumbing, tanks, lines, supplies for parts and repairs for > > existing equipment. > > > there is no need to create tension due to this situation, so my quick solution would > > be to create a paper which you both sign and have 2 witnesses for signatures, > > Unfortunately, the stage is already set for tension to be created. > For example, he says they agreed to split the cost of the electricity, > but apparently no mention was ever made of splitting anything else. > So, now trying to get the neighbor to pay more could very easily > create tension, even if he goes about it very nicely and is 100% > right. > > I agree with the advice to check the closing documents. � This > arrangement should have been spelled out in the deeds or a seperate > agreement at closing. � Who's land is the well and pump eqpt actually > on? � Did you use an attorney at closing? � Was he aware of this > situation and what did he say? > > If there are no terms specified anywhere, then I'd figure out what the > estimated life of the well and eqpt is. �I'd figure in a yearly > depreciation and have the neighbor pay you half. � �As for the > electric, you can estimate that too, by knowing the operating draw of > the pump and how long it runs on average. � There are devices like the > kill a watt gizmo that will tell you how much electric a device uses > by the day, week, etc. �Of course, you still don't know for sure, > because one house could use 3X the water of the other. �For example, > suppose the neighbor installs a lawn irrigation system? > > Then, you need to keep track of the payments over time that the > neighbor is making towards his half of the depreciation. � If it turns > out replacement is needed, for example if the pump were to fail, then > at that time you would credit the amount paid for depreciation of that > particular item against the neighbors share of the replacement cost. > The agreement should spell out that any excess is to be split between > the parties. �It should also spell out that for any routine repair, as > opposed to replacement, the cost will be split. > > In general, as you are beginning to find out, this is usually a bad > situation that leads to trouble. � For the cost of the well and eqpt, > it's just not worth it. � It's better to have paid any extra $5K up > front and not have to deal with this, because sooner or later, it > could very easily cost you more than that in legal fees and > headaches. �An obvious point where that headache will come into play > is when you go to sell your home? � It's not too likely that the next > buyer will overlook this as you did. > > �ie. we > > > > > have agreed that our neighbor pays $20 per month which includes all electric and parts > > existing or any repairs now and in the next 24 months - this agreement will stay in > > force until Feb 2010 at which time it will be renegotiated based on then prevailing > > utility rates and consideration to equipment age and any repairs that may need to be > > performed in the next 12 months as of Feb 2010 > > > should your neighbor not agree to these terms, make every attempt to come to a > > mutually agreeable solution without appearing to be taking advantage of the status now- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -

you could put a water meter on his feed. set a rate and read 3 times a year. enough to cover electric and killers like pump replacements

i would be concerned at home resale time. YOU will have trouble selling your home with this entalgment with your neighbor

did other homes do the same thing?

[trader4]

Andy suggest:

> >   Here's  and idea.  Put in a second pump for yourself.  Tell your > neighbor that he can have the "old" system as his own, but he > will have to put in his own electric line.  That way two pumps > will use the same suction line (not a problem with a check valve) > and the expense to do these items will be roughly the same.

Yeah, that's a great idea, make a screwed up situation even more screwed up. Where exactly is this second electric line gonna go? To the submersible pump? If he's gonna put in a second anything, then it should be a second well and pump that's for the neighbot on the neighbor's property. That fixes it once and for all.

>    If the neighbor doesn't go for it, ask him what he would suggest > as a fair division of the costs of providing water to you both.....

Seems the neighbor is getting water right now. So, why would he have much interest in a new bastardized system?

>   By the way, whose land does the suction line exist on ?

Even better question, who's land is the well on?

If you two reach and agreement, be sure that an easement > is provided to the suction line, or anything that is necessary > for the operation of the system. > >   Sometimes it's better to bend a little than to insist on what > one feels is one's "just" rights.  A good neighbor is far more > of an asset than an old pump.... > >            Andy in Eureka, Texas

Yeah, he should just bend over and take it like a man!

[trader4]

This is like asking an employee to use *his* car for your business and only

> paying him for his cost of gasoline. We all know that there are many costs > associated with owning a car... Purchase, interest on loan, license, > insurance, gasoline, and repair costs. > > Same with a well. Every so often need a new pump. Need costly repairs. > Sometimes need to dig a deeper well because well goes dry. Can have trouble > with bacteria or contamination in water and need to treat it. Can have a > daily limit as to how much water can be pumped from certain wells, etc. > > What if your neighbor decides to use too much water and this makes the well > go dry for the day and you are left without water? > > What if the well goes dry and you need to dig a deeper well? Who pays what? > > What if you and your neighbor are without water because the well went dry, > it will cost $10,000.00 to get it fixed, and you decide you want to wait 30 > days before having this done (time to get money or loan)? Can your neighbor > sue you because you are not providing them with water? > > What if your well becomes contaminated with bacteria and this makes your > neighbors sick? Are you liable for their medical costs? > > What if they don't pay you their share and you cut off their water? Can they > sue you? > > Etc. > > The only way I would do this is to place the well on a separate electric > meter and install a water meter on the neighbor's line. Also a water meter > on your line. (Can tell who is using how much.) > > Then find out how much total water can be used from this well daily. Find > out typical maintenance costs over a 10 year period. Cost to replace pump. > Cost for deeper well, etc. > > Then get it in writing (with a lawyer doing the writing) that you or future > owners of your house are under no obligation to provide water to your > neighbor, that you are just doing this on a temporary basis until they get > their own well, and that you may disconnect them at any time for any reason. > > Also that you are not responsible for any water contamination by bacteria or > otherwise. > > That they are limited to using only a certain amount of water a day and if > they exceed this, you can cut off their water without notice. > > And if they are late with their payments, there will be a late charge and > interest charges. > > That you can change the terms of the agreement at anytime. That the > agreement is not transferrable to another person (future owners of their > house).

Yeah, that should be real easy. The neighbor just bought a new house and is getting water already under the current system, which was just an agreement to pay for the electric. I'm sure he'll just say sweet deal, including even the late fees.

The time for the lawyer and the agreement in writing was BEFORE he bought this place.

> Then calculate the cost of electricity they use each month based on their > water usage and charge for that. Also charge for their share of yearly > operating costs (well drilling, pump replacement, repairs, cost of meters, > etc.), and charge for your time to keep track of all this.

Oh, it gets even better. The neighbor is getting water right now and only has agreed to pay for electric. Not only to do you want to renegotiate the whole deal, you want to charge late fees and now bookeeping fees. That's a real good negotiating strategy.

> Basically the contract would say you are not responsible for anything, can > cut them off anytime you wish, and they must pay for their fair share of > everything (not just electricity).

And it gets even better. Why don't you call up your mortgage company and tell them you want 4% instead of 7%, want them to pay you fees for bookeeping, etc? Should have about the same chance of success.

> Perhaps also state that you are charging them a monthly "connection fee" > which will be paid even if they use no water at all and this fee is not > based on usage. (You would not have to calculate usage every month and they > could not come back at you claiming you miscalculated their usage, etc. > wanting a credit.) You could choose to just charge them a monthly fee and > not bother with doing any calculating if you so choose.

Here's an idea, why not charge them a fee for breathing air too? Can anyone be this stupid? This is how a bad situation that could POSSIBLU be resolved by being reaonable, winds up instead in court.

[Heaven bound.]

replying to hallerb, Heaven bound. wrote: Seems the main question everyone is answering is about the actual pump and lines supplied by the seller. Are you to assume cost of a new pump since the seller of the land paid for the well? If not then basic electricity is all I would charge. As far as the pressure tank you installed does it backfeed into their supply line? If so then they will rep the benefits of it as well. My wife's parents are on our well also and I hear my pump kick on a lot when we are not using water. But they are family so I'm glad to help their situation. Should have bought one big bladder tank and put it at the well for both houses. Hope this helps.