Quick basic advice on a dripping gas 40-gal hot-water heater

Don't forget that all that crud in the pipes was in the water to begin with, it's gross looking, but not harmful.

Replacing the pipes is not difficult in itself, however depending on the design and layout of the house it can be a major project to get to all the pipes. I hate crawling around in crawl spaces, and you'll almost certainly have to cut open some walls. If you have a full basement it will be considerably easier.

Reply to
James Sweet
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"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in message

The problem with asking at the store is the average worker there knows very little. Flex lines used to be against code in some places, then there were required for earthquake prone locations. A call to the gas inspector will clarify what you need. Water heaters are better than dryers, but years of constant flex and vibration can cause cracks in the joiunts of flex lines.

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Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in message

Plumber would have used some copper fittings and soldered the joints. He can get exactly what is needed that way.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in message

The problem with copper is getting it trough wall. Pex, OTOH, is much easier to get through and with the proper tools, easier to work with.

There are ways of getting under the driveway, but you'd have to either rent the equipment or call a plumber for that portion. Check what was used for the main. Many years ago (mostly in the 1940's) lead pipe was common.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

I think it needs to be *at least* 6 inches above the floor, you don't want it to be too high though in case you are in the room when it goes off. I assume you have a floor drain in this room?

I believe every WH manufacturer recommends replacing the flex line if the heater is replaced (that is if a flex line is used.)

I would. Can you at least look and see if the valve looks like it is a standard 3/4" pipe thread? If so I'd replace it. Like I mentioned earlier, I just used a 3/4" dielectric nipple, a 3/4" NPT ball valve, a 3/4" male NPT to male garden hose adapter, and a brass garden hose cap to make my own drain valves (I actually have three water heaters on my property, two in the house and one in the garage...)

I have yet to see a drain valve for a water heater that didn't screw into the tank with a 3/4" pipe thread. I imagine the Sears rep just told you it wasn't replaceable to keep you from messing with it.

?

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don't know, they apparently aren't required anywhere I've lived.

Your installation instructions should have that info.

I'd screw it together, at least two screws per joint. Before you do that though, check with a match to make sure it's drafting properly - light a match and hold it in the gap between the top of the water heater and the flue vent while the heater is burning. The flame should go straight up or slightly in towards the center of the vent - NEVER away from the center of the vent. If it does it is backdrafting and whatever condition is causing that needs to be corrected.

good luck

nate

Reply to
N8N

Hi Nate, It's a garage that drains down the driveway.

This reference also says "at least" six inches off the floor.

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This one says "within" six inches of the floor:
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I'm going to tell Bill to decide to put it at the 18 inch mark above the elevated step; otherwise it would need a horizontal length which would be bad.

Thanks, Donna

Reply to
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coo

Or he didn't know and he was just hazarding a guess disguised as fact.\\ This reference says they can be replaced with a ball valve.

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THey say six inches but the old one was less than half that.

Reply to
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coo

Better than curious. I wanted to learn if the anode was corroded in which case it was a diagnostic tool as to what caused the failure of the prior tank.

By the way, I found some requirements for the installation of the pressure relief valve plumbing ... which must "not terminate more than 6 inches (152 mm) above the floor". Darn. Now we need to horizontalize it, creating the chance of clog causing further danger to occupants! :(

Donna

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504.6 Requirements for discharge piping. The discharge piping serving a pressure relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination thereof shall:
  1. Not be directly connected to the drainage system.
  2. Discharge through an air gap located in the same room as the water heater.
  3. Not be smaller than the diameter of the outlet of the valve served and shall discharge full size to the air gap.
  4. Serve a single relief device and shall not connect to piping serving any other relief device or equipment.
  5. Discharge to the floor, to an indirect waste receptor or to the outdoors. Where discharging to the outdoors in areas subject to freezing, discharge piping shall be first piped to an indirect waste receptor through an air gap located in a conditioned area.
  6. Discharge in a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural damage.
  7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily observable by the building occupants.
  8. Not be trapped.
  9. Be installed so as to flow by gravity.
  10. Not terminate more than 6 inches (152 mm) above the floor or waste receptor.
  11. Not have a threaded connection at the end of such piping.
  12. Not have valves or tee fittings.
Reply to
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coo

I'd guess if you remove and inspect annually, that the threads don't lock up.

Why did you want to remove the anode of the old heater? Just curious?

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I've seen flex line for gas, and flex braided for water. Not sure it's legal. But it sure is a lot easier than making the correct shapes of rigid pipe nipples.

Yes, that galvanized pip should be replaced.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

new plastic [pipe and fitting will repace the drain line easily....... no biggie

replace the galvanized all of it before it leaks and causes mold , structural damage or a flood.

it will fix all flow issues and make your home more valuable

Reply to
hallerb

This implies we can't use plastic for the discharge tube:

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Here's what it says ... (catch that last counter-intuitive line!)... Donna

A discharge tube is a tube or pipe that is attached to the TPR valve that directs the superheated water down to the floor and away from anyone in the discharge area to prevent scalding or burning.

The pipe itself must be made of a material that is rated for both high temperature and pressure, which includes most rigid wall copper or iron. Also, the size of the pipe must match the opening size of the TPR valve discharge (usually ¾ inch).

The tube must terminate no more than 6 inches from the floor or be directed to the exterior of the home. If the discharge tube is routed to the exterior, the pipe must discharge 6 to 24 inches from grade, with a downward slope to prevent the pipe from clogging or forming a trap. Blocked discharge tubes will prevent the superheated water from discharging and will burst.

Though counterintuitive, it is often recommended that the discharge tube terminate next to the water heater so that any malfunction of the water heater will be more readily noticed.

Reply to
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coo

Notice this one says six to twelve inches above the floor:

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And, again, note the restrictions on the materials.

The discharge tube overflow pipe "must be made of a material that's rated for both high temperature and pressure. This includes most rigid wall copper, iron and, in most places, chlorinated polyvinylchloride (CPVC plastic not regular PVC) pipe. The pipe size must match the opening size of the TPR valve discharge (usually ¾ inch). It must terminate 6"-12" above the floor, and the end cannot be threaded or have a fitting which permits connecting a plug or cap."

Reply to
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coo

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in message news:oshuj.2068$ snipped-for-privacy@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...

Yes. There should be a tee.

It would go something like this: The incoming gas goes to the heater thru the tee, but at the bottom of the tee is a 6" piece of pipe to catch oil & other impurities in the gas. tailpiece, drip loop, whatever you want to call it. The -hose- goes from the tee to the heater; the rest is solid pipe.

incoming gas water heater tail piece

Reply to
Bob M.

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in message news:Hjhuj.8178$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...

On your new heater, take the anode out and wrap the threads once with teflon tape or anti-seize compound. Much easier to remove the next time; still provides protection too.

Reply to
Bob M.

yes it does,,,,,,,,,,,, no metal to metal contact no protection.....

geez i just replace the tank when it fails, it gets me a more efficent unit every 10 years or so.

disturbing the anode and messing with the tank can generate a leak and early tank replacement.........

Reply to
hallerb

In addition to the prior quoted article from Rheem which says to use Teflon tape on the sacrificial anode, these guys on the plumbing forum ran an experiment by wrapping 20 layers of Teflon tape around a threaded coupling and then measuring the electrical resistance:

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Here's what they say about it. Donna

"I just put about 20 layers of teflon tape on each end of a nipple and tightened one into female galv an one end into female copper. I then used a multimeter to measure the resistance from one fitting to the other, through the two teflon-tape joints. The resistance was less than a tenth of an ohm (i.e. short circuit).

When I did the same across a dielectric union, I got about 2 mega-ohms (i.e. there's just a tiny bit of conduction through the water, but the metals aren't touching)

So the business about teflon tape being just as good as a dielectric union is complete nonsense. The threads just cut through the teflon. It may work in some cases, but it won't work in others and should not be recommended.

What's amazing to me is that there are all these "old plumbers' tales" out there, so people are arguing about whether brass or teflon or stainless are good or bad. Shouldn't this be scientifically determined? I realize that corrosion happens over many years, but still, there must be ways of measuring corrosion in the lab. It shouldn't be a matter of opinion or first-person stories (anecdotal evidence)."

Reply to
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coo

How can it be that replacing a drain valve in a full tank leaks not water?

I still feel badly that I didn't replace the plastic drain valve with the brass ball valve because I was afraid the plastic was not removable (that's what Sears salespeople said anyway, instilling FUD in my mind).

I was subsequently reading how to replace the plastic drain valve after the fact and they all seem to say it won't leak if I do so with a full tank.

Huh?

How can removing the drain valve at the bottom of a full water heater not leak 50 gallons of water?

I already saw, first hand, what happens when that drain valve

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40 gallons of hot water in my garage
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Can someone clarify this statement from, say: http://216.250.104.54/default.cfm?PageId=41781 (see excerpt below).

Donna

Maintenance Tip #21 Drain valves Drain valves usually come when you buy them from a manufacturer. They used to be brass. You should install a 3/4 ball valve on your water heater. The plastic ones are prone to leaking. To install a brass ball valve, turn the gas or electricity off and open a hot tap inside the house. If you have a cone-shaped valve, unscrew it counterclockwise six turns or so and pull it out at the same time. Now turn it clockwise while continuing to pull and it will come out. Wrap Teflon on the nipple that is exposed on the water heater. Attach the ball valve now. If you have a plastic drain valve that looks like a hose bib, unscrew it by turning the entire valve itself. A little water may come out while you're installing a new valve, but not much at all. Wear gloves to avoid getting scalded.

Reply to
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coo

Automotive anti-seize compounds should not be used for potable water connections, due to the presence of petroleum distillates and metals such as nickel or molybdenum.

--Gene

Reply to
Gene S. Berkowitz

Their idea of "a little" water is "about 5-10 gallons." I would drain the tank prior to replacing. I did just this on two heaters in my basement last year and I was unable to completely drain them (the WH drains are lower than any drain in the house) I had a mess to clean up after each one, and lots of sediment came spewing out too. It was especially fun as both were so close to the floor (wh's not on stands) that I had to leave the new valves open while starting the threads. Assembling the whole mess on the bench and installing the garden hose cap is highly recommended.

There will be less water coming out than you experienced with your old tank because of the vacuum of having all the valves in the house shut, but it'll still come out eventually.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

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