Police, gas utility workers entering RI homes to shut off gas (why?)

Ok, here's what I don't get:

1) It's not clear from this story why the gas company thinks there's a problem somewhere.

2) I don't know how they do things in RI, but around here our gas meters are outside, and there's a small lock-able valve in the gas line entering the meter. This is so that the utility can shut the gas supply off to a premises and LOCK the valve closed with a pad-lock. So there would be no need to have to enter the premises like they're doing here in Westerly RI.

====================================================

formatting link
Natural gas issue affecting 1,600 homes Crews will begin to turn gas back on tonight

Updated: Thursday, 22 Dec 2011, 9:06 PM EST

WESTERLY, R.I. (WPRI/AP) - National Grid says crews are going to door-to-door in Westerly to close off the natural gas meters of 1,600 customers as it works on a distribution problem.

Utility spokesman David Graves says crews worked through the night and had secured about 800 meters by about 7 a.m., and the company will start restoring service Thursday night, with the problem solved by Saturday.

Main Street and Canal Street are among the areas affected. Not only are those streets filled with homeowners, but businesses are also impacted by the issue.

"It?s going to be devastating to be without heat or power for this holiday season. It?s our crunch, time," said Molly Silva, a business owner.

If no one is home at the time, police officers along with a locksmith are entering homes to shut the valves off.

"Thank God no snow, no frost, no freezing temperatures yet. We just hope for the best. Hopefully we can get some things going for Christmas. I have a meal to prepare, hopefully we are good to go by then," said Westerly resident Mallory Carpenter.

After National Grid has checked each affected home, and the problem has been resolved, they will return to each home and business to turn the meters back on.

Officials said this is not an easy fix, and expect the process at least a day or so. Right now, no homes are in danger.

Graves says more crews are expected today from around Rhode Island and Massachusetts.

National Grid is asking that anyone in that area who does not have natural gas, to please call 1-800-640-1595.

Emergency shelter available for affected families

Due to the natural gas service interruption in parts of Westerly, the Westerly Police Department and the American Red Cross will be opening an emergency overnight shelter at 6:00 p.m. Thursday.

The Shelter, at the Westerly Senior Center, 39 State Street, will provide a meal and overnight accommodations for those families affected by the gas service interruption.

Reply to
Home Guy
Loading thread data ...

One of the comments:

============= Oh wait nevermind. It's AIR in lines from a contractor hitting a main and air got in, which can cause problems. They are purging the lines. Its a safety issue and now its explained. THANKS CHANNEL TEN! for the informative reporting! ==============

Still not clear why they have to enter each house when the gas supply shut-off valve is likely on the outside at the meter.

Having to come around to each house and *go inside* as part of turning the gas *back on* is something that I think is standard proceedure for a gas utility (even if it doesn't make much sense).

Reply to
Home Guy

Many areas in RI are old city construction from the time when gas meters located in basements was the norm.

Reply to
Pete C.

"Pete C." wrote in news:4ef3eb38$0$16491$a8266bb1 @newsreader.readnews.com:

My gasmeter is in my basement. Reading is a huge pain in the ,,,,, because I'm not in favor of the guy traipsing into my house. So I tell him the reading.

Reply to
Han

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D

+1...

Many of the older homes and buildings have meters inside...

As major remodels occur they might be moved outside if the property owner wants to pay to have it moved, but people in RI are notorious for being very cheap...

This is the first such occurrence where homes have had to be entered in such a large area -- perhaps this event might inspire changes in the building codes requiring the meters to be located outside...

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

Except for the tens of thousands of homes that have the gas meter on the inside, usually in the basement.

In the three houses I lived in Philadelphia, the gas line came in from underground and the meter hung on the front wall of the basement. The meter readers used to come once a month and knock on door to come read the meters.

I image these houses have similar setups.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

But they don't have shut-off valves *on the outside* ???

Normally, a utility (any utility) likes to have outside access to a shut-off mechanism so they don't have to enter the premises (or deal with the owner) to shut off the utility in cases of non-payment, etc.

Reply to
Home Guy

There are curbside street valves, but they are their own nightmare.

This RI thing is weird.... never heard of anything like that. Gas interruptions, while not an everyday occurrence, do happen, and I never heard of anything like this. I don't see why "air in the line" is different from any other interruption/restoration, that doesn't seem to require this type of invasion.

I think this is a harbinger.

Semi-related, in my neck of the woods (Yonkers, NY), they have installed RFID meters, which can be read remotely, sposedly even by satellite. Goodgawd, the very notion makes my fillings hurt....

Reply to
Existential Angst

e meters inside...

If the problem is air in the lines, wouldn't they have to pretty much bleed not only the mains but also get air out of all pipes inside the house?

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

Agree. The video in the link clearly said they were entering SOME of the affected homes, not all. I would think those are the homes with the meter and shutoff inside.

Reply to
trader4

Your meter's on the outside, therefore EVERYBODY's meter is on the outside, huh?

Not necessarily. I've been in a lot of houses where the meters are inside. Both water and gas.

It only doesn't make sense when you close your mind off to the possibility that maybe, just maybe, you don't know it all.

Reply to
dennisgauge

formatting link

I wonder if all the people whose houses were entered by police/locksmith were notified in advance? If not, this sets a VERY bad precedence. Did the locksmiths replace/fix any damage?

Reply to
Existential Angst

Oren wrote in news:c2m9f7lkpguug2natmqct684reoigu0pjr@

4ax.com:

police/locksmith

Public safety seems to me a good reason. I have a waterheater with a pilot light. It doesn't need electricity to keep the water hot, which is a distinct advantage during a power outage (DAMHIKT). If there were air introduced in the municipal gas system that blew out the pilot, existing safeties may or may not prevent gas from flowing out the pilot into the basement. At a certain concentration that could becpome a definite explosion hazard. Homes here are close together, and if my home blew up, the homes on either side would be severely damaged. Enough reason for emergency personnel to service my gas lines in a bona fide gas emergency.

Reply to
Han

Nope, no outside access, some of the older street taps off the main line don't even have shut-offs -- so entire streets would have to be shut down where the street mains branch off from the larger mains feeding from the gas compressor plants...

LOL, they would do the same thing they are doing in the emergency, go in with a sheriff or police officer to cut the service off, with a locksmith if need be...

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

Except this wasn't an emergency per se, afaict. Presumably there was a main valve that shut off gas to the area. So THAT takes care of any blow-up type emergency.

Next, the gas meters need to be closed, OK, but there is now time for notice.

Was notice given?

Not arguing that the powers-dat-be could or should be refused access, just wondering about the procedure by which they GOT access.

Recall how the law of eminent domain has been badly abused lately, for the private sector -- which then can presumably be taxed to benefit the People, but what a stretch. And not a goddamm thing you can do about it, with the current paradigm of "legislation".

Reply to
Existential Angst

Your meter's on the outside, therefore EVERYBODY's meter is on the outside, huh?

Not necessarily. I've been in a lot of houses where the meters are inside. Both water and gas.

It only doesn't make sense when you close your mind off to the possibility that maybe, just maybe, you don't know it all. =========================================================

Only relatively new construction has meters on the outside. Pre-1960 (give or take), virtually ALL meters are inside, which means in some neighborhoods, 95% of meters.

As I mentioned elsewhere, one partial solution to the reading cost of inside meters is to RFID them, which has been done by me.

Reply to
Existential Angst

"Existential Angst" wrote in news:4ef4f044$0$13507$ snipped-for-privacy@cv.net:

Admittedly, I didn't read the whole thing, and my "story" was more information than a response. But I do have a healthy respect for any explosion risks.

Reply to
Han

TinyURL was created! The following URL:

formatting link
south_county/natural-gas-issue-affecting -1600-homes

has a length of 91 characters and resulted in the following TinyURL which has a length of 26 characters:

formatting link
I've heard of other cases of this happening. But, is it legal?

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

formatting link
.

Natural gas issue affecting 1,600 homes Crews will begin to turn gas back on tonight

Updated: Thursday, 22 Dec 2011, 9:06 PM EST

WESTERLY, R.I. (WPRI/AP) - National Grid says crews are going to door-to-door in Westerly to close off the natural gas meters of 1,600 customers as it works on a distribution problem.

Utility spokesman David Graves says crews worked through the night and had secured about 800 meters by about 7 a.m., and the company will start restoring service Thursday night, with the problem solved by Saturday.

Main Street and Canal Street are among the areas affected. Not only are those streets filled with homeowners, but businesses are also impacted by the issue.

"It?s going to be devastating to be without heat or power for this holiday season. It?s our crunch, time," said Molly Silva, a business owner.

If no one is home at the time, police officers along with a locksmith are entering homes to shut the valves off.

"Thank God no snow, no frost, no freezing temperatures yet. We just hope for the best. Hopefully we can get some things going for Christmas. I have a meal to prepare, hopefully we are good to go by then," said Westerly resident Mallory Carpenter.

After National Grid has checked each affected home, and the problem has been resolved, they will return to each home and business to turn the meters back on.

Officials said this is not an easy fix, and expect the process at least a day or so. Right now, no homes are in danger.

Graves says more crews are expected today from around Rhode Island and Massachusetts.

National Grid is asking that anyone in that area who does not have natural gas, to please call 1-800-640-1595.

Emergency shelter available for affected families

Due to the natural gas service interruption in parts of Westerly, the Westerly Police Department and the American Red Cross will be opening an emergency overnight shelter at 6:00 p.m. Thursday.

The Shelter, at the Westerly Senior Center, 39 State Street, will provide a meal and overnight accommodations for those families affected by the gas service interruption.

If there is a problem with the gas main (depressurised), they have to ensure no air gets in any where and if it does, the main has to be purged at all points before it can be put back in use.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

formatting link
they had any way to contact the home owners, the HO's could have brought a key back home. And let the utility guys in. Sounds to me like a bad legal precedent.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

formatting link
.

Good point. And by what "authority" did they enter the homes?

+1

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I remember from a long time ago, when I was involved in some of this. The fire department has a LOT of legal ability to go into places. Based on English common law. Me, if I was conducting this kind of thing, I'd send locksmith and firemen. After all, most firemen have some skill with natural gas shutoff. I used to be volunteer FF, and we were all trained in how to shut off the gas valve. And many of our FD tools had shut off capability.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

formatting link
.

I don't know the law in RI, but I get the point of taking action to prevent a disaster. I know the DPU / SFM can enter your property (land) for a variety of reasons. I've never seen anything that allows them to enter a home - with police and locksmiths.

============================ Say a rookie cop sees "drugs" or "firearms" in "plain view" when he enters the home on a DPU / SFM "emergency". What stops the cop from later getting a warrant for an arrest of the home owner for drugs and firearms possession?

Tell me they can't turn off the gas from a remote location?

This is bad precedence. Maybe RI has laws that allow some agency to enter your home, I would not live there!

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.