The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures.
I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape?
@J Burns:
In what application ?
Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level of sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape...
In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place of using teflon tape...
You wouldn't be using Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease for that purpose at all...
The Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease you refer to above is used to keep valve stems lubricated... The only thing you might use teflon tape on near a valve stem is as a temporary repair to the packing to stop it from leaking before you either properly rebuild the valve or replace it...
~~ Evan
This grease is not an appropriate substitute for teflon tape.
This grease is a lubricant. Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant.
Contrary to the belief & recommendations some:
1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of sealant; dope or tape 2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
Here's grease sold as a sealant:
Novagard G 624 is another grease sold for sealing and lubricating.
Water was leaking around the valve cartridge in my shower because the housing was pitted. The valve grease completes the seal between the o-rings on the cartridge and the housing. It may also prevent further pitting.
A few years ago, the 9" pipe for the shower head got thin and broke. I used teflon tape to screw in a new pipe. This helped me screw it in tight, helped it seal, and could make it easier to unscrew later. In the case of that shower pipe, what would be wrong with using a suitable grease, instead? It could be easier and more foolproof than teflon tape.
The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint.
Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain application.
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The standard for water plumbing is to use either teflon or pipe dope, both of which are cheap and available anywhere. Don't see why anyone would want to use anything else.
What does the grease container say? Website?
One major reason for not using teflon tape in certain applications is the small pieces that get cut loose during the threading operation and screw up equipment down stream. Thus it is bad to use it in hydraulic systems.
I used to work in a farm equipmen manufacturing plant. We learned not ot use it on the hydraulic systems frothat reason. Had seveeral returns where we had to tear down and overhaul hydralic pumps due to teflon in the close tolerance places. I suppose the same would be true for gas lines.
Harry K
Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound in the wrong direction! Or are they using reverse threads? I was always taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to tighten the teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it in bunches.
Oops, I must be dyslexic today. I looked at it again and someone must have inverted the picture from the 1st time I looked :) Sorry for the rant.
Hey Bub-
Why do you insist on spreading this wrong information?
"avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint."
In several previous A.H.R threads it was clearly established that........ NPT threads DO NOT SEAL BY THREAD DEFORMATION.
The design & mfr of the threads create a spiral leak path between the thread crests and valleys. NPT threads, correctly cut, MUST HAVE A SEALANT TO NOT LEAK.
Only NPTF threads (dry seal) depend on thread deformation to seal.
I am amazed by your inability to absorb new information to replace wrong information.
No. The main reason people use PTFE is to lubricate the threads so that the fitting can be tightened tightly enough to provide a seal.
Additionally, the material itself, be it PTFE tape or the grease that the PTFE is suspended in, provide an additional highly viscous barrier (sealant) to any small leaks.
Jon
sealant:
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Thanks, I think I'm getting somewhere.
I had used silicone sealing grease in the military. It's sticky, inert, and heat resistant. Later, I thought it would be just the thing for plumbing. (It is used for plumbing at sea.)
It came to mind when my cartridge leaked. I came across the term "plumber's grease" online and thought it must be similar. The tube of Harvey's said it could be used in steam systems up to 350F. I thought, "That's it!"
It worked, but in taking a second look, I found that it smells like petroleum grease and isn't as sticky as silicone sealing grease. The MSDS says it's general purpose lithium grease.
I've had good luck with teflon tape, but sometimes I've had to try again because I'd applied too much for a good mechanical connection. You need the right tape for the application. It takes two hands, and you could end up with a bit of tape in an orifice or valve. If I applied sealing grease to the male threads, it seems I could do it with one hand, it wouldn't interfere mechanically, and any excess would be squeezed to the outside, not the inside.
I've never used pipe dope because it used to harden. That could make a joint hard to unscrew and leave the contents of a container useless. Now I see they have non-hardening dope. I wonder how it differs from sealing grease.
Working in a modern power plant for 30+ years we used nothing but teflon tape in the instrument dept. HP steam which condensed to h2o at pressures up to 3-5000 psi on our instruments, and hydraulic pressures on the turbines that approached
10,000 psi tefl> The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.
Sigh.
"The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." Wikipedia.
"For NPT threads a sealant compound or Teflon tape must be used for a leak-free seal. For NPTF no sealant is needed for a sealing." ANSI/ASME B1.20.1
So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if the thead "deforms"? I am still resuing fittings I salvaged 30 years ago that were probably reused at least once already.
Harry K
Dunno why the artist put that full, closed roll where he did. the 'loose end' is from teh wrap around the pipe and doesn't even go with that roll.
Harry K
Now we're going to get into the mechanics of materials?
These are NPT threaded joints we're discussing..... Elastic / non-yeilding deformation vs plastic / yielding deformation is irrelevant to the discussion.
Look at the thread form of NPT threads....they need a sealant. Look at the joint torques for common NPT thread sizes.
Harry K's comment was spot on...your comment is splitting hairs at best
cheers Bob
You never addressed my question...
"And what is your point?" with respect to showing the wikipedia quote,
Was it to bolster your incorrect understanding of NPT behavior & usage or to show the source of your misinformation?
Instead you resort to comedy.......
How about ......
"I was wrong. A complete metal to metal seal cannot occur with NPT threads. NPT threads need a sealant. They cannot work with lubricant alone."
It won't kill you. It's so much easier than tap dancing & obfuscation. Try it.
People come to A.H.R for information. Spreading your misinformation is a disservice.
I was NOT wrong. The Wikipedia entry speaks for itself. It does not mention NPT threads, champagne corks, wooden pegs, nails, ordinary screws, or glue. I took it to be a generalized statement, subject to refinement for specific cases.
That you are looking for some nit to pick may give you great pleasure. I am glad I was able to feed your hobby.
"I took it to be a generalized statement, subject to refinement for specific cases."
Nice tap dance........
but despite your "performance" any tapered pipe thread joint, other than NPTF (dryseal), needs a sealant. Which would be teflon tape or dope. Teflon tape is a sealant not merely a lubricant.
To continue to insist that pipe threads do not need sealant is to mislead & misinform.
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