Ping Clare: Tire problems

[Tekkie®]

Hi all, I ran over a pipe Thursday cutting the passenger side tires on my

2018 Grand Cherokee with only 2100 some miles. I used Jeep assist to call a tow co that took 90 minutes to arrive (the guy was really nice and lifted us into the cab) to take us to a local dealership thinking they would have the tires in stock. They didn't. We got a loaner and found a room. Next day we pick it up with the tires replaced by OEM and model on the passenger side and got on the PA Turnpike. What a miserable ride home. Steering wheel not centered, swaying, pulling and floor and wheel vibration. Had to slow down and really pay attention. What is normally a 1-1/2 hr drive took 2++. Looked at tire pressures 44 on most with 45 on left rear. Specs are 32 front and 36 rear. Obviously they saw victims as we live almost 100 miles away and would never be back. Paid outrageous prices, I mean sky-high. I expected premium outcome. I got incompetent techs, like a poster here rants about... Only one mile was on the car between failure and pickup. Obviously no pre-delivery check.

My questions are, that I asked the dealer about:

Should all 4 tires have been replaced?

Could the back drivers side tire be moved to the right front?

My analysis (through my foggy brain) is that the new tires are defective.

I have texted the salesperson whom sold us the car and she is working with us. We arrived home after service was closed. I will be contacting the installing dealership and my local dealership Monday. The local dealership is also a dealer for the OEM tires. I want to see what is going to happen. If I have to get 4 tires they will be Michelin. If they give me a good break on the price I will get them from the local dealer. If not I will go to another tire dealer who is always lower in price. If I do not get satisfaction by the end of the week I will dispute the charges.

I want my old driving experience back. The Jeep was a genuine pleasure to drive! Now it's like driving an old Ford Falcon with sloppy ball joints and crappy unbalanced bald bias ply tires.

Any thoughts, suggestions very much appreciated.

[Terry Coombs]

  Are you CERTAIN that the pipe didn't cause other damage to the suspension ? Because that's what it sounds like to me . If so and the repairing dealer did not inspect and find it , they could have some liability ... and these days a hundred miles is no big deal . It does sound though that whatever else , that dealer did a lousy job .

[hubops]

My thoughts also - some other damage done - maybe even by the tow truck guy - I had a tow truck driver hoist my car up with the tire sidewall folded onto itself due to the lip of the cradle

- when I pointed it out to him, already worried that he might have damaged the tire - he looked peeved that I asked him to let the car down and fix it ... Also - why were the tires not covered by road-hazard warranty ? I would have thought it was standard. John T.

[Frank]

I'm not Clare but can tell you that my Subaru requires 4 of the same size tires and if one is replaced it should be shaved to the size of the others. Subaru AWD requires it. Don't know about Cherokee but tires lose rubber faster on onset and slower in use. Maybe they could have put matched tires on front and back putting both on same side might have been the problem.

[Tekkie®]

Terry Coombs posted for all of us...

I wasn't under the car but they gave me a pictorial with no damage noted.

I suppose the tow truck driver could have done it. He drove it onto the flatbed then wrapped straps around the tires and tensioned them.

I don't understand the comment about a hundred miles being no big deal...

[Tekkie®]

[e-mail] posted for all of us...

Tires aren't covered by user (me) error that I know of.

[Terry Coombs]

  I meant that the dealer being that far away is no big obstacle for you to have to deal with in this . Not that it won't be inconvenient , but it's not like they're a thousand miles away . At least it sounds like your dealer is helping out .

[hubops]

Your situation is exactly what road hazard IS. John T.

[trader_4]

But he has only 2100 miles on it, it's a brand new car. A new tire is the same size. He says two were replaced with OEM tires, so he should have 4 tires that are virtually identical. With only 2100 miles on them, there is no reason to have to replace all four. I'd say pulling and swaying would indicate either an alignment problem or some other damage was done by hitting the pipe. If it was just vibration, that could be incorrect balancing of the new tires. How big was this pipe that blew out two tires? I guess if it was me, as soon as I got on the highway and noticed all this, I'd have gone right back to the dealer where the tires were replaced. I guess at this point, the normal dealer should inspect for damage, balance all four tires and check the alignment.

But sometimes weird things do happen with tires. I took my MB in for some work once, it was a long time ago, I don't remember exactly what I had done, but they took the wheels off in the process. When I picked it up, where it wad driving fine before, now it had vibration on the highway around 65. I went back, they gave me the song and dance that it could be a driveshaft problem, can't be anything they did, etc. I took the car home and rotated the tires on one side front to back and it was back to normal. I can't explain it, usually in a shop if they pull wheels off, I'd think they just keep them near where they came off, ie not move them someplace and mix them up.

[Clare Snyder]

Road Hazard insurance used to be pretty common or standard - less so today. replacing tires onjust one side isn't exactly kosher - and tire experts claim switching left to right isn't an issue. I tend to dissagree - but it's better than running bigger on oneside thanthe other, and the tire pressured didn't help anything either.

HOWEVER - I strongly suspect the pipe did more damage than just the tires. Get a competent front end man to check the alignment, check the tires/rims for run-out, and properly balance all 4 tires.

[Tekkie®]

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...

Wednesday at the local dealer. The local dealer claims that the mileage on the car: 2127 is not enough to have a substantial difference in circumference to matter. It was sidewall cuts, no road hazard.

I have read Tire Racks pages and they claim radials can be switched side to side. Other sites say no. I will call the tire manufacturer today. I am pissed because it was a fifth wheel long RV that entered into a gas station driveway, cutting the turn short, while I was exiting, I was forced to mount the curb and hit the vertical pipe to avoid contact. I had to drive up to a safe area to pull off and got no information from driver #1. I don't want to claim it on insurance. FnnA.

I will see what Wednesday brings.

[Tekkie®]

Terry Coombs posted for all of us...

I understand now. I have an appointment Wednesday at the local dealer to have a look and what the opinion is. No matter how it works out it means $$$$ to me as I'm not going to claim it and don't have info on driver #1.

[Tekkie®]

trader_4 posted for all of us...

I would but I was on the PA Turnpike. My wife asked specifically (twice, in my presence) if there was any other damage and it could be driven on the turnpike. We were told it would be fine. Guess I will find out Wednesday.

[Tekkie®]

Tekkie® posted for all of us...

To all, I just contacted the tire manufacturer and spoke to technical support. The rep stated they should have been mounted on the same axle, the back axle. He said no problem moving the left rear to the right front.

[dpb]

On 4/30/2018 1:45 PM, Tekkie® wrote: ...

"The general rule for tire rotation is to cross the free rolling axle. So on a front-wheel drive vehicle, the front tires are rotated straight back to the rear and the rear tires are crossed to the front.

The opposite is true for a rear-wheel drive vehicle so the front tires are crossed to the back while the rear tires are rotated straight to the front.

On four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles, the recommended rotation pattern is a ?Double X? so the right front and left rear tires switch positions as do the left front and right rear.

On vehicles with directional tires, the front and rear tires switch positions unless the tire is demounted from the rim so the direction can be changed."

--Tire Industry Association

In early years of introduction there was folklore that radials shouldn't be swapped rotation but afaik it was never more than superstition.

--dpb

[dpb]

On 4/30/2018 2:13 PM, Tekkie® wrote: ...

What I would have had done, altho as was noted elsewhere (your hometown dealer I think?) only 2000 mi isn't enough to consider the originals as anything but still new so wouldn't have worried about it as long as the new are the identical tire.

Just out of curiosity, not that it really matters, what were/are the OEM tires on the vehicle?

Are issues resolved or still handling problems? I'm w/ Clare that full undercarriage inspection is in order; that could have done any number of things including damaging rims so they're not running true even if didn't ruin the bead.

Wasn't a month after got the Enclave somebody skewered a sidewall on it one evening while in a meeting in town--being sidewall was also not repairable...this was a program car rather than new but had had new set of Michelins put on before we bought it replacing the OEMs. Turns out learned very expensive lession hadn't thought of at all -- 19" rims cause tire price to be exorbitantly higher than either side 18 or

20...iirc that one time cost me almost $300...

[Clare Snyder]

At 2127 miles the wear should NOT be an issue.

Switching sides is a thorny question - but again, at 2127 miles??? I say it is still risky as the rubber WILL have taken a bit of a set - particularly if it has had a long run at high temps.

The manufacturer WILL say there is no problem. Most of the tire dealers will too.

I say switch sides and take your chances - I prefer NOT to switch sides because the only tires I have seen with belt separation/ belt failure / tread separation are tires that HAD been reverse rotated.

Did the reverse rotation cause the damage???? I cannot say FOR SURE - but if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck - - - - Pretty good chance it's a duck.

[trader_4]

Now that we have more info, that impact was not just running over a pipe, but impacting a curb first, then i guess a vertical pipe sticking out of th e ground. That could easily have affected the alignment. Did that dealer c heck it? That could be your pulling to one side problem. Vibration I'm bet ting is wheel not balanced or maybe even out of round. Also possible ther e could be another damaged suspension component.

It sucks that you weren't able to get the RV info to make them pay. I'm g oing through minor accident nonsense here too. A 26 year old girl rear end ed me while we were stopped. Just bumper cover damage, the girl driving adm itted she had brake problems and knew it. Just started the claim process o n that, so far the insurance company for their car says they have had no re ply from the owner... Looks like typical shyster.

[Tekkie®]

dpb posted for all of us...

Flintstone Utopics (sp) replaced with same.

Appointment Wednesday with local dealer. Supposedly the replacing dealer looked. No alignment. Of course not tested after installation.

I thought the dealer would see a cash cow coming in. They could get me for wheels, tires, alignment; minimum. What was I to do?

[dpb]

On 4/30/2018 3:05 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: ...

I can attest to fact that tires that have never been reversed-rotated are also susceptible to same failure modes...