Ping Bob. Follow-up and questions about rubber raft.; pressure gauge

[micky]

Follow-up and questions about rubber raft.

The valves came and they fit fine. Only $13. After 3 days of very hotttt weather, I finally have great weather to test pumping up the boat. (I did go check the stream at both ends, and it's better than I thought. Actual white water (but mild where I plan to go first), and a good place to put in. (a guy fishing and two thin girls in little bikinis swimming or wading (though at least one looked like she was 15) I talked to a guy who kayaks from upstream, and there were two "abandoned" kayaks next to the parked cars. I guess the owners were eating.

I probably didn't need one, but the stories about exploding boats prompted me to buy this pressure gauge. It gets 4.1 stars on 13 ratings and even the complaints are nothing like mine.

1) It fits, twists, and locks just fine into the hose from the pump, but the output of the gauge is a little smaller than the output from the hose, the same size as the tips are, and none of the tips will connect to the pressure gauge. And the gauge won't connect directly to the valves. So how is this supposed to work?

For this one, the third picture gives dimensions and it's 20mm at the top and 16mm at the bottom, that connects to the boat. It seems to me it should be bigger at the bottom, so that the tip that fits the hose should fit the gauge. There are several others and they are all similar.

2) Also, the two floor chambers just have the kind of port that a child's inner tube has, a clear plastic tube with a plug. Is there a trick to taking off the pump and not letting too much air out? I doubt it -- I don't see how. I think it just takes practice -- but I'm still asking.

3) As to deflating, the pump has a hose connection on the other side for deflating, but in order to open the boat's valve, you have to push in the center, and the pump won't do that. ?? Oh, I guess I should remove the whole valve and use the pump without a tip??? No, the pump doesn't fit the hole even with the valve removed. So it's not meant to deflate rafts that use valves???

It only took 4 minutes to inflate one of the big chambers pretty much... and 2 minutes for the other. That's not right**. Next time I'll only do 3 minutes for the first one. Then it took a couple more minutes for each chamber to get firmer, but still not much. So for a boat this small, no need for an electric pump.

**And I could even hear air coming out of the first one after I pumped up the other one. I thought a neighbor was weed-wacking but screwing the cap on stopped it.

And this was strange: The boat looked so clean and so new before today, even unfolded. It had one foot print on the floor, and the rest looked great. But today, it looked dirty almost everywhere, and not even consistently dirty. Almost splotchy. How did I miss that? In a way it's good, it means the previous owner was able to use it several times at least, but I won't win any medals at the upcoming boat show.

[Bob F]

More likely, running shuttle. That's getting their gear and cars to/from the other end of their trip.

I can't say, but IIRC, there were 2 or more "standards" for raft valve fittings.

Fold or crimp the hose?

I never saw anyone use a pump for deflating. They just rinse ALL sand out of it, dry the raft in the sun, pop the valves, wait for most of the air to come out, then roll the raft up towards the valve.

Rafters normally fill all the tubes soft, then top them off after putting the boat in the water. You definitely don't want to pump the first one to full pressure before putting air in the other(s).

Leaky valve? Probably needs a part or replacement, or just cleaning. Or maybe, just pop release it a couple times to blow out any sand in the valve.

Did you roll it up wet? If so, that's probably mildew. Or, if you mean "right after I used it", it might just need to be cleaned.

[micky]

Maybe. Although the first guy left his car at the bottom and ran, he said, 9 miles to the top. A second later he said he sometimes took Uber. :-) There are only 5 legal parking places at Daniels Dam, at the top, but maybe they still left their cars nearby

I was influenced because the first guy said he was going to a restaurant nearby to meet his river buddies.

Some of the valves on Amazon gives dimensions (and they are all the same), but some don't. They're all sold in pairs and I assumed they were all standard, except for of all things the cheapest ones which says that one is one size and the other another size (but even that one doesn't give details about what the difference is.)

Since you don't have a magic answer, I guess I'll return it.

I'll see what I can do.

Fine. Sounds easier anyhow, but the ad for the pump made a deal out of deflating, but I guess not for rafts.

Okay.

Brand new valve, no dirt or sand, but I'll try pushing it. It started to railn 2 hours early today so I brought the inflate raft into the hall. Tomorrow I'll know how fast it leaks air, if any. 6 hours later so far it looks pretty good.

Maybe I'll make the valve flap wet a little and that will make it seal better.

Not rolled up wet, not mildew. More like scuffs or ground in dirt. I don't mind that it's dirty, and maybe the water will clean it. It's just so strange that I thought it was clean like new for the first six times I looked at it, and yet it's nowhere near that clean.

It still looks pretty nice.

I'm waiting for a not too hot day following some rain. I'll get back to you eventually.

[Clare Snyder]

The valves are to faccilitate filling - they are virtually NEVER fully air-tite- and you MUST install the cap over them for safety. At least every one I've ever seen or used. I don't like having to pump up a raft or kayak while heading down river - or having to make for shore with a sinking boat (or one with a poorly running or stalled motor

---- but that's a totally different story I MAY tell here some day - -

-

[micky]

So I returned it last night and they didn't want me to send it back. So I'll put in the trunk and offer it to anyone I see boating, especially inflatable boating. I'd almost rather they had taken it back. Then I'd be done.

It started raining 2 hours early yesterday, so I kept the raft in the hall for about 24 hours. It didnt' seem to have lost much air in that time, so that's good.

I removed the valves -- and now I know why it was donated without valves, because he removed them to get the air out and then most likely didn't think to put them back in, or couldn't find them.

I removed the valves and it defalated pretty quickly. Strangely, it looked cleaner lying there flat, just like it did before I inflated it.

I finally found out who made it. It said Sea Stream on it but I could only find SeaStream kayaks, and they had no inflatables.

But yesterday I found it was made by Sea Eagle, owned by Harrison Hoge.

I couldn't see that until I inflated the boat, and I couldn't inflate the boat until I had the valves.

They don't make anything as simple as this one anymore. Their cheapest is $300, and I paid 10, plus 14 for the valves, and 23 for the pump, though the pump is better than what they include.

(This webpage reminded me that 40 years ago I bought an inflatable canoe, high quality, that someone had over lnflated and burst. I bought it from the company that made it. I knew that it was burst when I buoght it, but I didn't know the exact damage until I got it home. The rip is over a foot long, L-shaped, with the long edge in a really difficult place, right be a seam or weld or something, The saving grace is I think I only paid 10 or 20 for that one too. It was a gamble and I lost. I put it aside to think about how to repair it and gradually forgot about it. I think it's in the basement. Maybe someone would fix it for me but I don't think I could count on it to last even one day, or the folks who sold it to me would have fixed it.)

Okay. Seems fair.

Well, I'm not crazy about it, but if that's the way it is, so be it. I'm allowed all day for any ride I take, and they all start within 40 minutes of home, so I have plenty of spare time.

I'm all ears.

[micky]

One of the videos I watched showed a guy doing something like that, and I think he commented on it, but this valve has nothing like that. Nothing to twist with, only a little round "stick" to push in. At least I didn't find it. It's rolled up now but I'll look again.

I didn't think this valve was inferior. There were no valves on amazon that were more than a dollar or two more expensive. I picked this one because it gave dimensions, especially diameter.

Before I posted yesterday, I did google something about using a pump to deflate, and I didn't find the one I'd watched before, but I got some of the same videos as the link above, and I watched what for me is now the second one, dated Apr 13, 2010. And he spent 98% of his time talking about inflating and ended up spending 5 seconds on deflating, saying to remove the valve to deflate.

Aha, I think you're talking about

. I saw very very little about them and I bought Boston Valves.

Aha, Halkey Roberts are I think too big for my boat

one is 1.47 inches across at the threads and mine is 0.875 or so.

Ewww. Doesnt' sound good. I'll pump it up firmly, and again if it get soft. But I'm not ready for big waves anyhow. There is a Lehigh River dam release for 2 days every thursday and friday but one through September, to make good boating on the weekend. The Baltimore Canoe and Kayak Club I came across and it has trips up there. No charge but you have to have to bring your own boat. They have kayaks and I think they'll finish hours before I do, right? They have some sort of shuttle, but I dont' expect them to wait for me. They have no uber, but google maps shows 3 taxi companies only about 15 miles away. I guess that would work. Google maps is great. Cell phones are good too.

[micky]

They probably do take care like you describe. I did write to two trip leaders, but I only learned about them the night of June 24th, and one had a trip on the 26th and the other on the 27th. The Sunday guy had time to answer me but I only asked a couple specific questions. (I was afraid it was almost the last trip of the summerHe sent me the schedule of dam releases.)

Looked at their facebook page just now. I still haven't found where they have meetings or zoom sessions or anything, but I'll ask.

I did see saw this advertised just now,

$350 for a folding kayak. I can't have a real kayak because I can't really put one on the roof of my convertible, have no place to store one at home, and I can't even park next to my townhouse.

But first I have to use my little rubber raft on some easy water.

Their facebook page:

[micky]

Never mind. One of the reviews said "calm water only". That's fine if you want to fish, but not for me. I think I'll have to buy a second car and a house with a driveway. Just so I can go kayaking. Maybe I can find a girlfriend with a roof rack. Craigslist.

But first I have to use my little rubber raft on some easy water.

[micky]

Yeah, I guess it's like trying to find a beautiful rich girlfriend who can cook and will let me use her pickup truck. Can't have everything.

You remind me that I had a Sevlor catalog for a few years, but I think I was keeping busy with hiking then.

I had never seen that before but I saw a video yesterday with one of those.

Sounds good.

I have two oars but I have to find them. In the basement I have 4 wardrobes (armoirs) that I use for storage, but ove the years, things have been piled in front of them, scrap wood, plastic, metal, wheel covers, ladders. I got one open and it's all camping equipment; got the second open and it's mostly empty (Ooo, goody, more storage space), and I still have to move things to open the other one. That must be where the oars are. (The 4th wardrobe is my father's golf clubs, spare motors, foam rubber, the tool I used to use to bend the LeBaron door back up after it sagged. (They sold a special tool just for that! I had

3 leBaron's and it was a problem with two of them. One broke off completely and I had to have it welded back on. The guy did a good job and it lasted years until I got rid of the car. )

I've canoed on white water quite a few times, and with a rubber raft once or twice. I'm not counting the French trip because I was just rowing, not guiding the boat at all.

This reminds me of the safety? instructions the guide gave before the French trip. All he did is list left and right and maybe start and stop or forward and backward. It took 30 seconds. It might have been entirely in French with arm gestures. Even in 1987, it was a big contrast with what a professional raft trip leader in the USA would do

Okay.

But I'm staying away from all dams. There are only two on the Patapsco and one is the maybe 100 foot high dam for Liberty Reservoir! The other is the Daniels dam. On the Gwynns Falls there is a dam in Dickeyville. They are "low head" (a new term for me) like in the link. I know where they are and I'll know before I get there.

I see that inflatable boats are prohibited on the 3 reservoirs around here. That's probably because fish hooks will make holes in them! But I wasn't interested in the reservoirs anyhow. Just that you brought up dams.

On the reservoirs, "Inflatable or collapsible craft, sailboats, pontoon boats, and propane or gasoline-powered motors are prohibited"

Indianpolis has 2 reservoirs. One allows sailboats and the other, Morse, believe it or not, allows motor boats. It has since the 60's. They even rent big gas-powered pontoon boats there. Then we have to drink the water.

... I see that they allow motorboating on the other one now too.

Good idea.

[micky]

I just moved away all that ladder, scrap wood, plastic, all-wood yard signs, etc. and the oars were right in front, in the warddrobe. Still in perfect condition, even the clear plastic bag they originally came in, about 1979. Plastic, colorful, in two parts, with plastic rings included to hold them in the oar locks. (I've already looked. I don't think they sell this style anymore but they have big longitudinal grooves to make them stronger. I think they're good enough.)

I also found the self-inflating air mattress I'd bought at a yard sale. I'd lent it to a girl who had no fat on her and needed to recover from some medical issue. I guess this was at home, and I don't know why her bed was good enough the rest of the year. Then she stood me up for a date, didn't explain, and we ended our relationship, such as it was. When air mattresses come up, I wondered if I'd ever gotten mine back, but there it is!