parking lot flooding now.

[micky]

How much water can a drain beside the road that is 4 inches high by 6 feet long, that feeds a 22 to 24" diameter pipe that is 50 feet long remove from the parking lot? It used to be as much as could rain on

109 townhouses, plus their yards and streets, but now it doesn't seem to be that much. Or it rains move than it did before.

I live in the lowest elevation house in my n'hood, and I park in the 3rd or 4th lowest parking place.

The n'hood was built 35 years ago and I've been here 31, and until 2 years ago, the drain next to the parking lot was adquate for the rain.

About 2 years ago, it wasn't and a lake started forming and rising so that at least 4 cars were in danger of being flooded. When I moved my car, the water was less thand 2 inches from the door sill and rising, and another car was apparentely damaged because it was replaced after this (another topic for later)

After this the HOA hired an enormous vacuum cleaner on wheels (the size of a big garbage truck, and the guy vacuumed out the pipe that goes from the opening at the side of the parking lot to the stream bed. He vacuumed out a couple foot-powered scooters for children and some other things, but really the pipe was not clogged.

So I got a pick, a shovel, and an adze and I enlarged and deepened the channel that ran from the end of the pipe to the stream itself. The pipe is about 22 or 24 inches in diameter, and because the channel had filled in with twigs, branches, tumbled rocks, maybe a 2x4, and dirt over 30 years the water level never went below 12 inches above the bottom of the pipe. I got that down to 6.

But while I was gone, the HOA President hired a small excavator (something like a back-hoe) and the guy dug out the channel another 6 inches and widened it more, the width of its bucket, I think.

That took care of every possible obstruction, I figured. Yet last night, the parking lot started to flood again. My next door neighbor's wife called me at 2AM to move my car, and when I got outside, he said it had peaked because the rain had stopped. One couldn't even see the top of the cement cover to the drain or the manhole cover in it until the water went down. At that point, there was a whirpool 14" in diameter, so doesn't that mean the water was draining very quickly? Sure seemed to be.

I thought today I would find some obstruction, but I didn't, which leaves climate change as the only thing I can think of. Two of these floods in 2 years, after 33 years without any.

Any idea how to stop the flooding?

We have repaved the road twice, and I'll have to look during the day, but maybe that has raised the street level at the opening. I suppose that means we should cut out the asphalt down to the original gravel and put in just one layer, does that sound right? How far out into the road will be have to go? Bear in mind that if we go too far, it will be like a chuckhole for cars to drive into.

If we pave the road enough times so that the paving is thick enough, we may be able to turn ownership of the roads over to the country and not have to pay for repaving anymore. Good idea or bad?

[micky]

Well, really they did a good job this time. I was annoyed along the way because I despise the president (but she's out now) and because hiring the excavator was like saying my work wasn't good enough. and this coming from the woman I despise. And she was almost that insulting on the phone. But it looks like his work wasn't enough either, but I'm glad it was done before this second flood. Now we can come up with a 4th thing to do. (I was supposed to check today if the asphalt is really the problem.)

Do you think things would have gone better if we had to wait for the county to do each of the two steps? The contractors we hire hustle, and sometimes come the same day or the next if we say it's urgent, because they want the money. The county can't be pressured.

[Guv Bob]

neighbor's

Thanks for reminding me how lucky I am not to a homeowner association.

[Guv Bob]

association.

I guess I don't understand what's going on. If it's the county's responsibility, why is the HOA paying contractors? Are you asking the contractors to tell you what the problem is and how they are going to fix it, or are they doing just what you tell them?

Either way, I hope you're getting paid out of the HOA funds for all the work you're doing. That's a large complex.

[micky]

The road is the HOA's responsibility. I was comparing how it works when we hire contractors versus how it might be if the county owned the streets we live on and we had to wait for the county to schedule repairs. .

Some times we ask, some times we tell. In the case of this flooding, I'm sure we will ask first.

The digging I did a year ago I did on my own. I need the exercise. And it was fun, playing in the water. And I certainly wasn't going to deal with the previous HOA president, whom I despise. (It's all I can do to have even a short civil conversation with her.)

The time I spent checking things now has only been a few minutes (And I'm one of only 4 people whose car might get damaged, one of whom is moving in a momth.)

I just looked at the drain next to the road. and the added 2 layers of asphalt have, at least at the edge of the road here, taken about 4 inches away from the drain opening (x 6 feet wide). Until he moves in a month I have an electrical engineer living next door, who works at the most high-level employer in the area, and who also knows how to redo his bathroom, and seems generally smart. I'll ask him if he thinks the extra macadam is the problem. (or if it's climate change!)

The second repaving was maybe 5 years ago. So we've had a lake every 2 years since the second repaving. That doesn't seem so surprising.

I think we should cut down 4 inches and remove that material, up to 4 inches from the drain, and then make a slope up to the current level of asphalt. I think the edge of the slope will have to be sealed so it doesn't crumble. Maybe we'll have to put a grate in too. 6 feet long? That doesn't seem right.

Any suggestions: Grate? How to keep it from crumbling?

[Pico Rico]

If he is as smart as you say he is, he will know that asphalt is not macadam.

I would say the decreased opening to the culvert is a problem, not only due to decreased cross section but to adding turbulence to the inlet flow. But, there is likely to be more at play here. Might as well solve all of the problems.

[Ralph]

The pavement may be the HOA responsibility, but there is noway drainage is.

The county/city or whatever should have a Vactor-jet. These not only vacuum, but can jet out the drain. Mineral deposits can and will make the drain smaller. Vactor-jets have numerous different head attachments and even a chain saw like device, which can be attached. Most county/city/state Vactor's have camera's, to see if a drain is collapsed or under-mined.

Just vacuuming out the basin without jetting is a useless effort. The jetting actually forces debris back to the vacuum. Guess you would have to see it in action since I'm not good at explaining.

[Larry W]

Are the contractors related to the HOA president?

[Ralph]

I mentioned in my other reply, there is noway drainage is the HOA's responsibility. No contractor should touch drainage, unless they are hired by the local county/city/state. In fact, they can get in a heap of trouble by messing with it. The county/city/state will respond, they go by priorities.

Being drainage, it is foolish to pay a private contractor. You already pay taxes.

[Pico Rico]

you have no basis for making your statements.

[a2rjh]

Does the pipe drain into the stream like a "T" or a "Y"? May make a difference, since the pipe water is hitting the stream at 90 degrees and encountered resistance from the flowing water. A "Y" may help "vacuum" the pipe

[Ralph]

Maybe you should read what I replied to.

[hrhofmann]

Are you saying the opening into the drainage pipe is smaller than it used to be??

Also, are there any changes upstream that have increased the amount of water that goes into the drain pipe, like clearing out some underbrush that would then increase the rate of runoff when it rains?

[Pico Rico]

Maybe I did.

[Ralph]

So you have a hard time with reading comprehension. Sorry for your luck.

[gregz]

Something I've never experienced. We have boroughs which regulate rules and maintain roads. I get the impression most HOA are homes that all look th same.

Greg

[Pico Rico]

So, you draw legal conclusions based on mere allegations. Bad form, pal.

[VinnyB]

Do a counter-clockwise rain dance.

[VinnyB]

On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 19:58:42 -0700, "Pico Rico" wrote in

+1 on that.

[micky]

I will see if he does.

After Usenet, I'll be in Dictionary.