Hi,
I had some work done on a wooden porch and some dry rot was replaced with durham's wood putty. It dried for one day then was painted with valspar ultra latex. It gets wet and peels.
I repainted it and covered it with plastic to allow for drying but it still peels.
Can I just scrape this and seal it with polyurethane then use something like Kilz on it? It is a satin white and a small area so perfect color matching is not that important. Or does the peeling indicate something else.
thx,
itchy
The poly or an oil based primer might work if you get it 100% dry first. That wood putty tends to attract moisture hence the peeling paint.
Bondo would be a better repair material for next time as it does not absorb moisture.
Colbyt
Either that or there is something like oil in the wood putty which presents a non-binding surface
The peeling could be the result of moisture intruding from the bottom of the boards which are likely not painted. Covering the top when the bottom is adbsorbing moisture won't accomplish much.
Moisture...Just because the top is dry doesn't mean it's cured all the way thru , especially if it's a heavy fill...Ditto on the bondo for big repairs....
internaughtfull wrote in news:5eac98f3- snipped-for-privacy@q4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
I've used Durham's Water Putty outdoors successfully many times for such things.
Not sure how it was done in your case but I:
- Dug out any rot and soft/damp wood. Instructions even say it will absorb moisture.
- Covered (not sealed) and let dry out till I could feel no dampness. This can take days sometimes.
- Fill with putty. Deep holes, do in layers.
- Let dry and finish to desired texture.
- PRIME
- Paint at least 2x.
Durhams is fairly junky, at best it will last 4-7 years, painting after one day was a mistake, it needs to dry completely, covering a repaint with plastic makes no sense since you trapped everything from curing out. Wood was rotted, so it had water leaking in at some point, or it would not have rotted in the first place. Sounds like a big new experiment for you, ive had good luck with Bondo. Paint is probably failing now because of incomming water so fix that first, the durhams wont ever dry if water is leaking in and any oil paint will peel more readily than latex from moisture, latex breathes a bit.
While as other posters pointed out, your primary problem is probably that you didn't let it dry enough...
However, unless you let it dry completely and thoroughly seal all edges of the wood with an impermeable protective layer and keep it that way forever, then you will get movement of water in and out. However, most putties are not really waterproof so they can run into problems with moisture.
My solution for outside is to always use an epoxy-based product (Bondo is OK but it tends to be more brittle and not attach as well to wood which over time results in separation from the wood when it repeatedly expands & contracts). It's more expensive but should be a more permanent and professional solution.
????
Bondo absorbs moisture like a mother, even on a car it is a poor repair material unless sealed completely.
nate
Could you suggest such an epoxy-based product? I have an oak doorsill that shouldn't have been termite infested, but it was. I scraped out all the crud that I could, and drowned it in termite killer. Been years, and I have not yet repaired the damage and stained the area (assuming it will take a stain). Have been monitoring the pro- and anti-Bondo discussions with growing confusion.
So I would appreciate name(s) of these epoxy-based products, if you think they might work in an oak door sill.
TIA
You can use 3M or other body filler. You can use almost any 2 equal part epoxy system. You can use Durham's Rock hard water putty, though it is not expressly for exterior work. None of these products will take stain. You will be performing a paint or faux grain finish. If you insist on staying stainable, remove and replace.
Could you suggest such an epoxy-based product? I have an oak doorsill that shouldn't have been termite infested, but it was. I scraped out all the crud that I could, and drowned it in termite killer. Been years, and I have not yet repaired the damage and stained the area (assuming it will take a stain). Have been monitoring the pro- and anti-Bondo discussions with growing confusion.
West Systems at this page:
Multiple coats may be required. Then I used Bondo to fill the holes.
After the spring thaw I will go take some pictures of the project I did 7-8 years ago and see how it is holding up
Durhams Water putty would absorbe many x more water its wood a base product, Durhams on many houses ive done for customers never lasted as long as even the paint itself outside
If you want something easy, then you might try the following products from SystemThree: - First use the RotFix 2-part epoxy to penetrate and solidify the borders of the rotted area. It is basically a thinned epoxy that penetrates and plasticizes borderline rotted areas. You let it seep into the remaining wood and harden. This saves you from having to cut back too far and is good insurance that you haven't missed some rot
- Second fill and sculpt the void using the 2-part epoxy Sculptwood which comes in 2 plastic tubs of putty that you mix by rolling together into a ball. It is very easy to mold and sculpt. More importantly, it can easily be sanded and drilled when dry to give you a seamless repair.
You can buy the SystemThree products in various sizes but like all epoxies, it's not cheap -- expect to pay ~30-40 for each kit.
Personally, while I still use SystemThree for some uses, I have "graduated" on to the more versatile West System. It consists of a single Resin (that I buy by the gallon), various hardeners (differing mostly in drying speed, but also some specialty ones) and a wide varierty of different fillers. You really need to see the site for details.
- For repairing rot, I first use unadulterated resin & hardener (typically mixed 5:1 for most hardeners) to penetrate and solidify the remaining wood borders (like RotFix). One could dilute it a bit with alcahol to get similar viscosity and penetration to RotFix but tech support at West Systems recommends warming the wood (and/or the epoxy) as a *better* way of decreasing the viscosity and wicking in the epoxy (especially with warmed wood) without losing any of the epoxy strength that dilution would cause.
- For the actual void filling, I add #410 Microlight filler (balloons) to the resin-hardener mix to get a thick buttery consistency that I then use to fill the void. You can adjust the thickness of the mixture based upon your needs. Sometimes I add a bit of my own sawdust flour but I find that if I use too much of my own sawdust then the mixture ends up a bit gritty. After drying, you can sand and drill the patch to make it seamless. You can also use #407 Low density filler which is denser (and presumably harder) but also a little more difficult to sand and shape once dry. According to West Systems, it is recommended to seal coat it with a brushed on layer of resin-hardener mix since sanding can leave open micropores where the balloons are sliced open. I have always skipped that step and have not had any problems.
The Sculptwood putty is a bit easier to apply since it is not as sticky and goopy but I find that the very stickeness and goopiness of the Microlight filler mixture gives better adhesion and a more integral patch even if it is a little messier and requires more sanding when finished. YMMV.
On the other hand the West System is reported to be an exceptionally high quality epoxy and to be very versatile and tunable. It is used in high-end boatbuilding and woodworking. Also, I find it in the long run to be cheaper since with SystemThree you end up paying epoxy-like prices for the thinned RotFix solution and for the mostly-filler Sculptwood putty.
Hope this helps...
Once you are going the route of West Systems, why not also use West System Epoxy (with the appropriate filler) to fill the voids?
I find that Bondo does not adhere nearly as well and is not nearly as strong which can result in the patch separating from the surrounding wood. The epoxy patch can be drilled and depending on the filler can have good structural strength which is not true for Bondo. Also, I find the West System epoxy plus filler to be much easier to sculpt and sand. Finally, the thing that I hate about Bondo is that it is very sticky and difficult to work with. More importantly, Bondo just dries way too fast (a couple of minutes) meaning that I often don't have enough time to sculpt the patch nicely before it starts to dry and I have to keep running back to clean off my tools and make multiple small batches in my fight against drying time.
Now Bondo is a bit cheaper than epoxy, but not that much when you consider that the fillers for West System are pretty cheap and stretch your volume of epoxy.
Epoxy performs much better than body filler - see my other post.
I would avoid water-based products for exterior use. I have found that they don't hold up to water and I would not want to rely on paint to keep moisture out forever.
True. But an alternative is to add pigments or even stain to the wet mixture. I have had good luck adding standard Minwood stains to both raw wood filler and to epoxy. It may be hard to get an exact match and you certainly won't match the grain, but at least you can make the patch look less obvious. In general, if you are staining rather than painting, then you are probably better off to use a wood plug or dutchman rather than any type of fill.
replying to ransley, Michael Farnham wrote: I patch holes for a living the best product is Durhams. There is no fix that is permanent for wood. Bondo shrinks and cracks like everything else. also looks like crap when done. paint sticks to neither without proper primer. A coat of caulking over the top of either durhams or bondo helos keep the patch in tact. Any moisture on either product will cause failure. top bottom sides need to be painted completely.
replying to ransley, Victoria Van Vliet wrote: Man I RUINED my whole garage with that product. Durhams water putty ALSO DAP Plastic wood! As soon as rain came it popped off like popcorn! Complete failure with any water exposure!
Another clueless twit from HomeMoanersHub that can't read. You're replying to a SEVEN AND ONE HALF YEAR OLD thread.
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