Outlets per circuit ?

[gfretwell]

A lot depends on which version of the AFCI you have. The first version did not protect from much and was plagued with false trips. They are getting much better but we are at V 3.0 or higher now. I feel bad for those people who were forced to buy an inferior product at the point of a government gun in the early 2000s. There were a few wise AHJs who chose not to adopt 210.12 in the early cycles. Nobody wants to be on the bleeding edge of technology and the AFCI is a great example. They were actually written into the 99 code, to be implemented in 2002, before Cuttler Hammer (the inventor and main advocate in CMP 2) even had a working model ready to ship.

[trader_4]

That's always my philosophy, let someone else be the guinea pig. For example, a new firmware update came out recently for my phone. I put off allowing it to install for awhile, to see if any disasters were reported by other users.

[clare]

Rethink the basement lights and outlets on one. If you kick a breker using a tool in the basement and the lights go out - - - . Just sayin'.

Just mount a J-Box outside the panel and make all the connections there, and you've got the "code monster" licked. Consider adding another circuit (or two) to the island and "split" the outlets- using an "edison circuit" so if a breaker kicks it kills the whole box. That way you can plug in the big frying pan and the 4 slice toaster at the same outlet and KNOW you won't kick the breaker, and you can gave thesausage grinder and the big mixer on the other one making your venison sausage, withoy kicking a breaker there either. Just sayin' - nothing wrong with a bit of "overkill" on a kitchen work island!!.

[clare]

If you want to put a 20 amp in the bathroom you will need a GFCI breaker unless the US sells 20 amp GFCI outlets that we haven't seen here. . .

[clare]

Back in 2005 I believe the Canadian Electrical Code had a limit of 8 outlets an a 15 amp circuit. I think it is now 12, with a mix of outlets and lighting circuits. In the US the NEC apparently makes no requirements but some local codes will. Since Canadian code is based on some pretty sound assumptions and science, it wouldn't hurt to use it as a guideline where American code is silent.

[clare]

You are being quite conservative in your lighting circuits - definitely nothing wrong with that. As a professional electrician, my dad usually split the lighting loads and outlets between rooms, so if an overloaded outlet tripped a breaker it didn't turn out the lights in the same room. ( he also put 3 way switches in a lot of bedrooms - and even 4 ways- so you could turn out the lights from beside the bed.

- from either side - - -)

[clare]

The current crop is pretty darn good - but up here in Canada they are about twice the price of the US market. I ordered ONE from the US and installed it on the circuit that serves the 2 front bedrooms (as well as hakf the living room) when I changed my panel . The dual linked GFCI breakers are also STUPIDLY expensive up here (at least for the Square D QO panel)- so I had a friend pich up a couple for me for the sdison circuit split outlets on the kitchen countertops (no way to use GFCI outlets on an Edison cirduit without some fancy bodging). IIRC they were about 1/3 the cost, after exchange.

[trader_4]

IDK what the problem is in Canada, we have them here in the US. I have a 20a gfci receptacle in my kitchen.

[Terry Coombs]

Actually , it's more of a "cellar" than "basement" . It's only 10 x

16 and it's main purpose is food storage and a place to hide from severe weather . I'll keep a candle and a book of matches next to the door ...

I kinda think that 2 20 amp circuits on the island should handle our needs ... and if not , in this case it would be trivial to add a 3rd . I have the capacity in the box and it's all open under the house where I'd run it . I'm not familiar with edison circuits , care to enlighten me ? -- Snag

[DerbyDad03]

...and yet you seem to be sure about the kitchen.

"Those outlets on the counter top will only be used for light loads , all the "big" loads will be on the island circuits."

Just sayin'

[trader_4]

It's a way to run one 3 conductor cable instead of two, 2 conductor cables to get the same amperage 120v circuits. Instead of running two 20a 2 conduc tor cables, you run one 3 conductor with one hot from one phase, the other hot from the other phase, one neutral, using a double pole breaker. You put half the loads on one leg, half on the other.

[Meanie]

Easier said than done if there isn't much room in the panel. Unless smaller places upgrade, some panels are too small to designate lighting and receptacle. Otherwise, I agree with you.

[hubops]

[Terry Coombs]

They're available , around 10 bucks on eBay .

--

Snag

[clare]

AKA a "split" two circuits sharing the neutral on a double linked braker -basically a 240 volt circuit with neutral - half the outlet on L1, the other half on L2 with the "tie link" broken out between the 2 brass screws. Very common kitchen solution in Canada for many years. NOTE - you can NOT use a GFCI outlet - so if you want GFCI protection you need a 240 volt GFCI breaker - not a problem in the USA where they (at least for a Square D QO) are about 1/3 the price they are here in Canada (at least as of about 2 years ago when I did mine).

[dansabrservices]

Actually running a circuit at near max WITHOUT tripping the circuit can cause even more problems. You end up with one of two situations after a long period of time:

1) The breaker will trip too quickly with a load much under the rated one or 2) The breaker won't trip even with a dead short.

I have seen #2 happen. Fortunately, there was no resultant fire, but it was an eye opener.

Being on the local Fire Dept, I have seen my share of electrically started fires. None of which were caused by a faulty breaker though...

Dan

[Terry Coombs]

That island will be the main work space for anything that requires power - that is it's function . About half of the cabinetry will be space to store those appliances . Also keeps work space open on the rest of the counter tops for that stuff best done by hand - like rolling out dough , peeling 'taters , chopping onions , etc . I do most of the cooking and I know what works for me . The wife's preferences are very similar to mine and this has been a collaborative effort . Her biggest kitchen complaint has always been not enough counter space , this kitchen will have about 20 linear feet plus about 30+ sq feet and a "breakfast bar" on the island . Lotta thought has gone into this design . Helps that I spent over 20 years building cabinetry for a living , I've seen a lot of stuff that didn't work .

--

Snag

[Terry Coombs]

Hey , that gives me something to use that 20 amp common trip breaker on ! Everything going dead if it trips may be a problem though . Food for thought anyway .

--

Snag

[gfretwell]

There are at least 2 brands of breaker that allow 2 wires per terminal (SqD and CH). It is also unlikely that pigtailing 2 wires to one breaker would violate the 75% "fill" rule in 312.8 Simply splicing conductors in a panelboard enclosure is not a violation unless "conductors, splices, and taps" occupies "more than

75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space". ... no matter what a "home inspector" tells you.

[gfretwell]

They do, pretty much the same price as a 15a but if there is more than one receptacle on that 20a circuit, a 15a device is legal. Most GFCI devices have 2 receptacles.