The situation you describe above reminds me of the recent disgrace in London with the death of Thatcher. Did you see the parties the leftist nuts were throwing celebrating? If you look at them, most of the participants were either young kids or not even born when Thatcher was PM. I heard one of them yelling "She ruined my entire life!" All they know is the leftist crap they've been fed.
You know, let me clarify that. Eisenhower hadn't even won a second term yet. I remember the Kennedy assassination, Vietnam, Nixon's wage and price freeze, and Ford's Wip Inflation Now (WIN) buttons.
Then you should know how bad conditions were when Reagan took office. We had high unemployment that went over 10%, double digit inflation, Tbonds at 16%, the prime rate at 21%. You had major news organizations and magazines running articles questioning if the US had become so complex that it was no longer governable. Combine that with the Russians as beligerant and a bigger threat than ever, the US held hostage by Iran, our allies questioning our capabilities, it was one hell of a mess.
By comparison, the economic crisis Obama inherited was essentially one part of the financial system. Yes, there was risk that it could have spread and caused a wider collapse. But that part was dealt with early on. Actually, it was Bush that started TARP and provided the first part of the bailouts. Within a year, that part of the immediate crisis was over. We're now going on year five and the recovery is still a weak one. And I say that is directly attributable to OBama and the libs having the WRONG policies. Obama told us just past this $800bil stimulus and it's gonna create millions of jobs. Just past Obamacare because it's key to our economic recovery. Yet the recovery is one of the weakest on record.
Three years into the Reagan administration and we were creating jobs at 300,000 to 400,000 a month. We had GDP growth 2X what it is right now. And yeah, the libs bitched about the deficits. With the modest deficits Reagan ran we had a booming economy, we rebuilt our military that was in decline, and we defeated the Soviet Union once and for all. Under Obama, we've racked up $7tril in new debt, we're still running a deficit of $900bil a year right now. And what exactly do we have to show for all that $7tril? More people on food stamps than ever?
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news:08b5fdae-efdc-46b5-b77f-d62e828d8bc9 @googlegroups.com:
Ford's Wip Inflation Now (WIN) buttons.
So how come you *don't* remember double-digit inflation, double-digit unemployment, and double-digit interest rates? We didn't have *any* of that in the latest recession -- we had
*all* of it, at the same time, in the late 70s-early 80s.
I remember going from service station to service station trying to get gas in the mid 70's and some of them were hording it for their commercial customers. My brother in law was complaining about a federal order for a wage freeze for ALL businesses. 1971-1975, Obama Sr. was The President at the time and the youngsters don't remember that one. ^_^
You don't see it but you definitely fit in the one color of kool-aid only category. The way to confirm it is you are sure you are not. If I read what you write and then compare it with any of the right wing talking heads there is absolutely no difference. Like the polar opposite of you you are absolutely sure there is only one way with no compromise.
So you get so cranked up listening to whomever you listen to that you can't contain the knowledge that you are right so you need to let everyone know by posting for some reason in a home repair newsgroup.
And predictably the wingnuts go through a chain of you are wrong no you are wrong insults at each other because there can never be a meeting of the minds of extremists.
So post some links showing any that worked. The most recent of these was the "iron dome" paid for by the US but made and built by Israel. It was used in the last little skirmish between Israel and Palestine. Estimates of it's effectiveness were that it was probably able to go only 20% or less...
Yes, it figures you lib loons would try to go back 30 years and blame Reagan for what's wrong with today's economy. The truth is Reagan inherited a huge economic mess, in many ways equal to or worse than what Obama faced. We had a stagnant economy, high unemployment, double digit inflation, a prime rate at 21%, and US Tbonds at 16%. Jimmy Carter called it a "malaise" and lectured the country on how it was our fault. The lib elite were writing pieces about how maybe the USA had become so complex, no one could govern it any more.
When Reagan left office unemployment was down to 5%, and interest rates had been returned to normal levels. And the USA place as a world leader with a vibrant economy had been restored. We felt good about ourselves and our country for the first time in more than a decade. And from the day Reagan took office, unlike whining Obama, I never once heard him blaming the countries problems on Jimmy Carter.
If you want to look at why we have an economy that is barely growing, you don't need to go back 30 years. Just go back
You have an anti-business president. He's attacked insurance companies, drug companies, oil companies, Wall Street.... He's blocked drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, the keystone pipeline, even Boeings new plant in SC that would employ thousands as part of the 787 program. And by screwing with that Boeing plant, he put all the other tens of thousands of jobs in the USA and around the world that depend on the 787 in jeopardy too. Real good moves, with a struggling economy and high unemployment. And just as soon as he gets one tax increase, he's flying around at mil a day campaigning for another tax increase.
In short, he's doing the exact opposite of everything Reagan did. So, lets look at the results, shall we. From the third year of Reagan on, we were creating 300,000, 400,000, jobs a month. One month we hit 1.2 mil. In the fifth year of Obama, we're lucky to hit 125,000. Last month is was just 80,000. But yeah, it's all Reagan's fault......
Reagan was a brainless twit. A puppet for capitalists maggots. Everybody's hand was out in the trickle down conspiracy. Nixon was running the CIA. You pugs were raping the constitution. You will be destroyed for it. You turned America into a toilet.
Ok, I seem to remember inflation being a problem as far back as Nixon with his wage/price controls and Ford with his inflation buttons. There was a re cession in 1973-75, the worst since WWII. By the way, that's not the "late
70's"--sorry. In the late 90?s the Fed did raise interest rates--to final ly bring inflation under control. How long had it been out of control? And by the way, the unemployment rate in January 1981 was 7.5%, it didn't hit 1
0% until 1983, three years later. Listen to Hannity much?
To compare the above with what happened in 2008, when the global economy wa s on the brink of collapse and credit froze, is just stupid.
Ok, I seem to remember inflation being a problem as far back as Nixon with his wage/price controls and Ford with his inflation buttons. There was a re cession in 1973-75, the worst since WWII. By the way, that's not the "late
70's"--sorry. In the late 70?s the Fed did raise interest rates--to final ly bring inflation under control. How long had it been out of control? And by the way, the unemployment rate in January 1981 was 7.5%, it didn't hit 1
0% until 1983, three years later. Listen to Hannity much?
To compare the above with what happened in 2008, when the global economy wa s on the brink of collapse and credit froze, is just stupid.
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news:0f286bc2-9b09-4eb6-8b3c- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
brink of collapse and credit froze, is just stupid.
No, what's "just stupid" is thinking that conditions in the last five years were anywhere nearly as bad as they were in the late 70s and early 80s.
Ya know what? I think you're lying about your age. I think you're not old enough to remember the late 70s and early 80s. You haven't mentioned any "memories" that you couldn't have found on Wikipedia.
h his wage/price controls and Ford with his inflation buttons. There was a recession in 1973-75, the worst since WWII. By the way, that's not the "lat e 70's"--sorry. In the late 70?s the Fed did raise interest rates--to fin ally bring inflation under control. How long had it been out of control?
It's true that inflation had been a problem for many years, when Carter took office it was 6.5%, which is pretty bad. He helped change what was a problem into a catastrophe and direct threat to national security. Under Carter inflation accelerated each year and by 1980 it was 13.5% for the year and hit 15% one month, approaching the rates of third world countries. Now THAT is out of control.
And by the way, the unemployment rate in January 1981 was 7.5%, it didn't hit 10% until 1983, three years later. Listen to Hannity much?
Exactly right. What do you expect to happen when Reagan and the Republicans took the measures to bring inflation under control and restore economic sanity? Unemployment briefly peaked at over 10% in early
1983. By the time Reagan started his second term in Jan 1985, it was down to
7.3%. And by the time he left office it was down to 5.4%. And those decreases were by CREATING jobs and GDP growth, not by people giving up looking for work and be deleted from the unemployment count, which is what is happening under Obama. We were creating 400,000 jobs a month by this point in the Reagan recovery. One month we hit 1.2mil. Today, we're lucky to see 120,000. Last month we got 80,000. See the difference?
Exactly how long can Obama and the libs continue to try to blame everything on 2007-2008? Oh, and BTW, the other lie is that somehow it was the Bush tax rates or the Bush policies that caused the crisis. The truth is that with the Bush tax rates, in 2007, the deficit was just $160bil and had been declining for several years. Today it's $900bil and that's with an economy that is growing. Actually, the govt is now taking in more money than ever before, yet the deficit is $900bil?
What really caused the crisis? It's the old boom and bust cycle that has been going on in free economies since day one. This one was caused by wild speculation in real estate, encouraged in large measure by govt. Yeah, Republicans are partly to blame for that. So are most Democrats. When you make mortgage interest and real estate taxes a tax deduction, you encourage people to buy bigger, more expensive homes. When you make capital gains on homes exempt for most people, while taxing other income, you encourage real estate speculation. When you force banks to make loans to minorities that can't afford them, well, what do you expect? That combined with the FED keeping interest rates low, greedy real estate agents, appraisers, loan companies, wall street, etc, created the crisis. It's nothing new, it's happened time and time again.
was on the brink of collapse and credit froze, is just stupid.- Hide quoted text -
What you don't get is that yes, there was a real credit crisis. But that credit crisis for the most part was quickly solved by the steps taken in 2008 and 2009. The global economy didn't collapse. In the case of inflation that is
13%, it's much more difficult to solve. You can't just make loans, flood the economy with new money to solve it, which is what the last crisis required. That's easy, everyone likes loans at close to 0%.
Fixing the economy in 1981 required the exact opposite, stopping the out of control growth in the money supply and dramatically raising interest rates. The prime rate hit 21%, Tbonds hit 16%. The resulting economic slowdown put people out of work. Now that is a tough thing to deal with, especially politically, when you have libs bitching that you should just live with even higher inflation so there will be more employment. They wanted to keep tax rates at 70% too, which is where they would be today if OBama and the libs had their wary. But Reagan cut the tax rate in half. That cut resulted in a huge INCREASE in tax revenue too. His policies worked and soon the US economy was the miracle of the world. And I never once heard Reagan blame anything on Carter once the election was over.
By the time it was all over, all the libs could bitch about was the deficit. Funny thing, I don't here you all bitching about the deficits being racked up today that are 2X worse. And you forget that Reagan never had Republicans in control of the House. Not even one year, not even close. He only had control of the Senate part of the time. Yet, he got his policies throught, without bitching and dividing the country, engaging in class warfare. And with Reagan's deficits, we rebuilt the military, we rebuilt the economy, we created millions of new jobs, we cut unemployment in half, we restored our respect in the world. And we won the Cold War without firing a shot. In fact, despite all the libs bitching about Reagan being some nut cowboy, he only used US troops in a few minor engagements.
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:07:52 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller wrote:
were anywhere nearly as
enough to remember
They say a recession is when your neighbor gets laid off, and a depression is when you get laid off. So it's all relative in that sense. I got laid off from my first IT job in '82. It was bad enough, but I managed by finding a factory job at 1/2 the pay of the job I lost. But I was lucky at that, since I had previous experience operating and repairing similar packaging machines. Also found some side work with a plumber. But I had previous plumbing experience too. And my mortgage was only $212 a month. Even with all that, I was really worried about paying the natural gas bill when December of '83 rolled around. But the economy came back, and I doubled my pay quickly by going back to an IT job. Without getting deeply into the history of factory jobs migrating overseas, the boom of the IT industry, then the migration of those jobs overseas, just look at "real" unemployment rates and foreclosures. The "Reagan Recession" was virtually over by '84. And it was boom times after that - for me anyway, and for many others. Doesn't look that way now, but since I'm retired, older, and have less energy, that might shade my view. A lot of it is timing - when you were born. When I see what has happened to, say a 50 year-old with a big montage, and not yet having pumped up savings, and losing a salary he has no hope of regaining, I thank my lucky stars I wasn't 50 when he was 50. Because I was there too, but at a different time. But I mainly go by "real" unemployment, foreclosures, and national debt. Looks worse now to me than in '82. But my kids are all working, and seem happy enough. So I'll just repeat. They say a recession is when your neighbor gets laid off, and a depression is when you get laid off.
I pointed out your facts were wrong and now you're saying I must be lying a bout my age.
As a kid our TV was an Admiral. It sat on a stand and you could crawl unde r it and see the tubes glow. We got a Magnavox in '68 or so. It was our fir st color TV. Our family car was a '59 Parkwood Station wagon. Before that w e had a '57 Mercury. Our phone was black. The only way you could get an ext ension phone was from the phone company and you had to pay extra. Our neigh bor got busted by the phone company for putting in extra phones. Our other neighbor had one of those new "princess" phones. We'd just gotten Christmas lights where if one light went out the whole string didn't go out.
Umm, Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black thing, George? Like most of your rhetoric, it either lacks facts, or in this example, it is simply ludicrous.
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