OT The NRA and LaPierrre

[Scott Lurndal]

The trick is to not break the law in the first place.

Trying to get out of the consequences for your actions is chickenshit.

[Scott Lurndal]

Don't believe that TV shows are anything like reality. They're not.

[Ralph Mowery]

A person should not be arrested before there is enough evidence collected to be reasonable sure the person should be convicted. After all a person is supose to be inocent untuil proven guilty.

A person should not be arrested and then have to spend weeks to months in jail before the trial. That violates the 'right to a speedy trial'.

Sure there is bail, but somtimes the person is held without bail or the bail is so high many can not pay.

[Ralph Mowery]

Yes it is an exception to most traffic cases. Still should it take even one day to select a jury for what is really a minor traffic case ?

In my oponion all that should be asked for jury selection on the minor cases is if the jury knows the person or their close relativies.

[Ralph Mowery]

Yes the defendant has to be there and sometimes their lawyer.

One case that stood out was a woman that ran a stop sign. No accident. The cop had marked the block as a man instead of woman. The woman did not have a lawyer just herself and told the judge she was a woman and not a man. Judge dismissed the case.

NC does not normally have jury trials for traffic, but sometimes they do as the one I was called to jury duty for. The defense did not like my answers so I was not chosen. Probably because I knew many cops and had a few retired cops as friends.

[Ralph Mowery]

Where I live for the local court they call in about 30 people and if you are not selected you go home and can not be called back in for a length of time. I am thinking like 2 years but not sure.

There are some other courts like the state or federal that seem to have different rules, but I don't know them. The wife had to go to one of the courts and had to be there every day and serve for two simple trials in a week that only lasted a day or so each.

[Ralph Mowery]

Sounds about like what a cop friend told me. Said the lawyer asked him all kinds of questions about the drivers license. After the court was over the cop asked the lawyer what that was all about. Lawyer said as he blew about twice the limit on the breath test the case was lost but "I had to do something for a while to make the man think he was getting something for my $ 250 fee".

[trader_4]

I got out of jury duty because of Covid. I got the notice to serve maybe in February, then things closed down. A few months later I got a notice saying I was off the list for another 7 years, or whatever the cycle is. I was surprised, I had assumed that when courts re-opened I would be notified to come because I had already been selected. But for whatever reason, they tossed it.

I've been called twice before, served once on a criminal case. Wasn't much of a case, just some parolee who came into our little parish and made trouble. Cop pulled him over for a traffic stop, he assaulted the cop and took off. Went on a high speed chase for about 60 miles, ending with him abandoning the car and getting away in a swamp, where he assaulted another cop.

[gfretwell]

In most states traffic citations are a civil affair. DUI is one exception. Driving after suspension/revocation can be another but not always. It depends on whether the suspension was court ordered or simply an administrative decision. If it is court ordered it is contempt of court and judges take that seriously.

[Scott Lurndal]

Hit-n-Run cases are also criminal traffic cases. I spent a memorable fortnight taking the bus from Pasadena to downtown LA for jury duty back in the 1980s. First case was a discrimination case against Knotts Berry Farm (employee claimed he was fired due to his age). I was dismissed from the jury panel during voir dire after answering a question about any relative being fired from a job - my sister had, but as I told the court, I suspect she deserved it - even the judge[*] laughed, then the plaintiff's attorney dismissed me from the panel).

Next case was a hit-n-run, took a bit over a week with deliberations. Complicated by various factors including a wet-behind-the-ears prosecutor.

[*] Judge Sally Disco, another memorable name. Notable for ruling that Madonna must trim her hedges.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Well while that is true, not every ticket handed out is valid.

Can you go the wrong way on a one way street when there is no sign? Yeah, a photo got my son out of that one. A week later that was a proper sign.

I went through a red light? No, I passed you where you were parked watching the intersection but never crossed it.

[invalid unparseable]

I have seen it change here over the years as I recall a secretary called in for a month but when I went in years later it was for a single trial and if not selected it would be a few years to be called again.

While called five times over my life, I only went in twice and served that one time.

The first time was in Ohio but I had moved to Delaware and wrote and told them and never heard from them.

Then there was the call in with no service then call with service.

The fourth time I was supposed to go in on a Monday morning and I got a call Sunday night that I did not have to come in.

Last time, I declined based on my age, over 70. I could still be summoned and in fact some people like serving on a jury and do not want to be excluded because of age. For me, it is no thanks.

The time I served I could have been excused and in fact the verdict was appealed because I was on the jury. It was a civil case involving a death and hospital and doctors had been sued. We acquitted the doctors but the hospital had settled out of court. What I did not know was that one of our sons was a lawyer for the hospital. The appeal was denied.

It was a very interesting experience as I learned a lot about the courts, people on a jury and details of the illness the plaintiff suffered.

Might mentioned that after the trial, right before we left, the judge came in and praised our decision.

[invalid unparseable]

Speaking of DUI, I am reminded of former neighbor's son:

This was after 14 DUI's and last I knew a few years ago it was up to 16.

He is a nice guy and works full time in spite of being drunk all the time. I suspect if not for his prison terms he would have been dead by now.

[Ralph Mowery]

For people like that I don't know what to do, but something should have been done after the 3 rd time he was convicted of DUI to keep him off the streets. Maybe deport him to an island that does not have any cars on it. Maybe the Amish (however you spell it) part of the country up north where they use horses.

[gfretwell]

I am not sure the Maryland system is better as far as enforcing the law is but the Florida system is harder to game. We also do not use traffic tickets as a source of revenue like Maryland does. They don't put massive speed traps on the interstate and write tickets 40 at a time. (everyone in the pack gets a 10 over ticket). I got a warning here for 68 in a 45. The cop said I wasn't being reckless, I was just going too fast. They won't even blink for 10-15 over if you are not weaving through traffic. I was on a deserted 4 lane.

[invalid unparseable]

I think life in prison would have been best. It is a wonder that no one was killed in one of his accidents. What can you do with people like this? It is sad. I have no idea where he is and mother had died years ago and father about 5 years ago and stepmother kicked him out.

[invalid unparseable]

My wife got a speeding ticket when going through a town, a black SUV started tailgater her and she sped up and the SOB was a cop in an unmarked vehicle and gave her a ticket. She was too embarrassed to tell me and just paid the fine. Had I known, I would have had her fight it.

[gfretwell]

Argue with Trader. In Maryland tickets are just road tax. Everyone does 10 over on the beltway and when they want money they set up a speed trap and write everyone a ticket, 30-40 at a time. You come over a hill and there are

15 or 20 cops standing in the road waving everyone over. You all get a 10 over ticket. If you are lucky enough to be in the next "platoon" you get away with the same exact "crime". As soon as they write up everyone they stopped, the process starts over. The PC and individual culpability is suspect so if you go to court it is automatically dropped to 1 over. It is hard to fight that.

I accept the Florida system. At least around here, you really need to be doing something unsafe to get a ticket and that is not just going over the limit that was set for when we are packed with snowbirds. Traffic is not a priority on the main roads. They do take passing stopped school buses, speeding through neighborhoods and school zones seriously tho with big fines. It is very specific enforcement, usually responding to complaints.

[gfretwell]

Yup but I wouldn't consider hit and run a regular traffic ticket. That does come with penalties including jail time.

I never got to hear a trial. Usually I got sent home without ever being called up for a trial. We just sit around for a few hours until they fill all the juries and get some alternates. The one time I did make voir dire, both attorneys wanted me gone. It was a malpractice case and I told them my opinion of lawyers, doctors and insurance companies. They told me not to lie. ;-)

[gfretwell]

You can get a DUI on a horse. I know a guy who got one. On a bicycle or a riding mower too. Basically if you are on anything that moves on a public road they can write you up. Some of them get dismissed before it gets too silly (like the horse) but you still spend a night in jail and pay the lawyer tax.

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