OT: Spark Plug Replacement- Mileage vs. Time

As a former dealer service manager I will give a different viewpoint -

- - The manufacturer's recommendations are the minimum required maintenance to get the car through warranty and also calculated to give the consumer the (sometimes but not always accurate) impression that the cost of opperation will be lower.

As a dealer service manager MY job is to have the customer be very happy with both the car and the dealership. This requires a fine balancing act. I need to increase the probability that the customer's car will NOT break down and will NOT require "unscheduled repairs" - making the customer VERY HAPPY with the car while still not making the maintenance cost high enough that the owner is NOT HAPPY with the dealership. This sometimes requires servicing the vehicle a little more aggressively than the "bare minimum required" by the manufacturer.

In my experience vehicles maintained on a slightly modified schedule - some things done a little oftener, others a little less - resulted in vehicles virtually NEVER having to come in between scheduled maintenance for breakdowns or unexpected repairs. This resulted in LOWER overall maintenance costs over the long term - not even taking into account the "cost" to the customer in being inconvenienced by the breakdowns.

Like I told a prospective employer (a competitor who would have hired me as their service manager) their best salesman sells a customer ONE CAR - while the service manager sells him the next, and the next, and the next - as well as selling his friends not only their first - but consecutive cars as well. (this was when he emphatically declared "service managers don't make $40,000" when I told him that's how much I was going to cost him - - - (this was MANY years ago - - - )

No argument here. For my 2015 Kia I split-the-difference on oil changes - between the owners manual and the dealer recommendations ie : ~ 7500 km. The car was trouble free and very reliable for 8 1/2 years 170 k km - happy Kia owner ! .. but then the death knell rang - clogged cat. converter + possible engine internal problems + very pricy rear shocks .. over $ 3 grand for the Cat. + struts and still a wonky motor to look forward to .. nope. Time to cut bait .. Clare - .. any thoughts on my replacement - new '24 Subaru Forester ? 2.5 liter "boxer". It seems OK early days but not the quietest motor on cold start .. and that's summer cold starts .. ~ Identical fuel economy to my 2 liter 2 WD Kia Rondo. John T.

The Forester is a pretty good vehicle. Head Gaskets have been problematic on some of the Soob engines in the past and they are NOT easy to work on when required.

Your clogged cat was LIKELY due to oil consumption - and you MAY have been able to get the engine replaced gratis because of it. If it was a Hyundai I'd say 75% or better - Kia a little less due to most of their local dealers being "stinkers"

The Kia dealer did some sort of "bearing clearance" test which ruled-out getting a new free engine, under the

- identical motor. John T.

I have had Subaru's for the last 26 years. Generally satisfied but saw the head gasket problem twice in my Forester forcing trade in before the second one took over. Also a son had it on his Forester. Both of us got some rebate from Subaru even though past warranty.

I am happy with my current Crosstrek but concerned about durability of CVT. I might consider an AWD Mazda today. Granddaughter just got one after looking at all other similar vehicles.

I would avoid any Korean car from reports I hear. Also a son's Genesis with only 30.000 miles needed a new transmission.

My last six cars have been Korean, mostly trouble free. The Genesis was still in warranty for the transmission, but I had to pay for the one that went out in my GM car . Same with the engine in another and on and on.

I'd avoid Subaru. I read recently that some have head gasket problems.

The Subaru head gasket problem was said to be resolved but I did hear about one on a newer model and as I wrote if I needed a new car I would look at Mazda. Also we had a family friend at SOA that got deals for us but he was riffed when car business suffered. He is now marketing director of an AWD brand starting at over $70,000. Not for me.

On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 19:52:54 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.com posted for all of us to digest...

Many cat converter failures on KIA's, know why? Not changing the oil enough. The oil goes past the rings into the cat where it kills it. The rest of the engine suffers too, as you found out. Like Clair said cars these days are made to last only through the warranty period, all of them. I don't have an opinion on Subaru's. I had one. Interior too small for me. Wife totaled it.

It sucks that it didn't give a check engine light or anything - even in the advanced stages where the car's performance was _greatly_ affected, there was no CEL ; no misfire ; no smoke ; no noise ; .. John T.

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 17:38:21 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.com wrote:

Not what I said. NOT AT ALL. The VAST majority of cars today are built that if more than minimally maintained, they can go 500000KM ir 300000 miles What I DID say, and I'll stick to it, od the manufacturer's service recomendations are based on the minimum required to get them through earranty.

Well, John - everything worked the way it was supposed to as far as the OBD2 was concerned. No sensors measured anything out of the ordinary. You saw no smoke because the calalytic converter cleaned up the exhaust the way it was supposed to. Nothing was mechanically loose to cause a noise. The engine burned oil because the rings failed. The rings not being, technically, emission devices, are not monitored by OBD2 - not sure how that could even be addressed. The first code you would get would be a P0420 - catalyst efficiency low on Bank 1 - and if the cat was a bit better than minimum spec that might not happen before the engine failed.

Sadly Kia/Hyundai had some pretty bad luck with a few of their engine models in some years. I do not believe these issues could be eliminated by more frequent servicing but it IS possible that if the oil had been changed earlier at the dirst service contaminants in the engine MAY have been removed before they did damage. Possible, but not terribly likely. On the brighter side, they DID step up and replace a LOT of defective engines well past the enf of warranty. Hyundai more than KIA - but a lot of the difference was due to the dealers "going to bat" for the customer. Locally Schlueter did a lot more for Hyundai owners than the Guelph dealer did - and a lot more than the local Kia dealers. I personally know several owners who had engines replaced free at well over 200000Km. At lwast one was for engine noise. At least one was for excessive oil consumption and at least one for total engine failure without a history of either noise or oil consumption. The noisy engine (Elantra) had been reported to the Guelph dealer while well within warranty and they didn't fdo anything about it. My friend serviced the vehicle regularly and it kept going and going like the Energizer Bunny but he was always afraid it was going to grenade on him so I advised him to go see Schleuter. The sevice adviser had him start the engine and in about 5 seconds he said "shut it down" and told him he was getting a new engine. The oil consumtion replacement was a Santa Fe using a documented 1 liter in 700Km at about 200000km. The destroyed engine was a Kia Optima with 208000km with no history of oil consumption or engine noise that had apparently stalled on the road once or twice (reported to the dealer) a few months earlier but restarted without problems then one day, when started cold, spun a bearing and almost put a rod through the block. My sister's Accent? let go like a grenade while still under warranty

- with no warning. Just lost power and seized up tight -and then came apart at the side of the road. She had a loaner for a couple months until they got the new engine - -

??

This would keep a generic from being legally sold?>> Can't a generic drug maker just make the original drug, without the new addition, since the patent has expeired on it. They can't market it under the trade name that the original owner used and uses, but so what?

Thank you, Supreme Court.