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Even the general in charge of Pearl Harbor at the time didn't know that there was an eminent threat because he didn't receive intel that was vital to preparing for an eminent attack. My FIL was there that day, and saw the planes overhead and initially had no idea what was happening until bombs began falling. He and his work buddies were sipping on their morning cup of coffee getting ready to do a normal days work.

He rarely talked much about what he witnessed that day, but he did tell family about having to cut holes in ship hulls to try to save trapped shipmates, and fishing the injured and dead out of the water. He was a crew member of the Arizona, but not that day. He had finished his enlistment and been discharged from the navy 2 weeks before the attack and was still working in the shipyard as an electrical engineer.

I totally agree!

Reply to
Muggles
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Obviously you have done no reading on WW-II

I've read-up extensively especially Churchill.

Maybe you need to do some reading too?

Reply to
philo

The intel might have been messed up or it might have been withheld on purpose...but we all know what happened and the end result.

WW-II is now over and my whole point is that Gingrich was way out of line. As wrong as one can be.

Reply to
philo

IDK what history books you're reading, but my take on it was that tensions had increased, the US thought war with Japan was a possibility, but not that we knew they were going to attack. Conspiracy theorists of course claim we knew about the actual attack on Pearl Harbor ahead of time.

When is a world power navy ever all in port? The big miss was the US carriers, which the Japanese thought were at Pearl, but they were not sure and a recon mission to find out failed because it could not be refueled. It was a decisive, stunning, tactical defeat, that's for sure.

Here come the conspiracy theories....

Reply to
trader_4

I have no way of knowing if info was purposely withheld but every historical account assumed the US knew the Japanese were likely to attack.

I did not come here to re-fight WWII. I did so to point out the inappropriateness and untimeliness of Gingrich's remark. (and his absence of praise for the US)

Reply to
philo

They say the general who was in charge of Pearl Harbor at the time was blamed for not being ready for an attack. He left the military being charged with dereliction of duty. He later found out that there was vital intel that he never received, and there would have been no way for him to know that attack was happening that day. It just made me angry to know we could have had a fighting chance to defend that attack.

I dunno ... My husband is a bit touchy on the subject of Pearl Harbor because his dad was a crew member, and his ashes are spread over the Arizona. I can understand what Gingrich was saying, but at the same time I can understand why many people are offended by him saying it, too.

Reply to
Muggles

For Newt to have praised the Japanese attack is no different than had he praised the "911" attackers for a brilliant surprise move.

That he chose Dec. 7th to make his disgusting remark makes it doubly so.

Reply to
philo

Maybe I try too hard, sometimes, to take apart what people say and try to understand what they are ACTUALLY trying to communicate. Timing can mean the difference between listeners responding one way vs. another way.

Reply to
Muggles

Let's review, shall we? You came here and made a post about Newt's tweet:

"75 years ago the Japanese displayed professional brilliance and technological power launching surprises from Hawaii to the Philippines."

You told us with that post:

The above quote was a "stand alone" quote and was not been taken out of con text. Had the statement been part of of a broader analysis it might have be en a different issue but it's false no matter how one looks at it.

In fact, the quote was preceded immediately before by this tweet:

?December 7 is a good day to remember that the world is dangerous a nd shattering surprise is possible even when we have been warned,?

So, let's put it together in context:

?December 7 is a good day to remember that the world is dangerous a nd shattering surprise is possible even when we have been warned,?

"75 years ago the Japanese displayed professional brilliance and technological power launching surprises from Hawaii to the Philippines."

And you think I'm the one that can't read or get things right? And note this isn't the first time you've done this, it's happened many times before, where you don't have the basic facts, or have them wrong.

Reply to
trader_4

Not as wrong as you just were, claiming that the one tweet was "standalone", not taken out of context.

Reply to
trader_4

I always thought that history was history but find today that history is often re-written to benefit the new author by book sales and appearances and enhanced reputation. I don't believe half the crap they say.

Reply to
Frank

Good grief... Instead of arguing about silly points so you can win, why don't you just try to have a conversation like normal people?

Reply to
Muggles

You really are an imbecile. He made two tweets and you totally ignored the first, which puts it in context. You came here and told us it was "standalone". That was false. The tweet that immediately preceded it, shows he was speaking about learning the lessons of Pearl Harbor as they still apply today.

?December 7 is a good day to remember that the world is dangerous a nd shattering surprise is possible even when we have been warned,?

And since when must an entire thought, an entire discussion have to be in one tweet? Who made that rule?

Obviously you didn't look at the link I provided that identifies the ships and when they were put back in service. Sixteen were hit, many did not return to service until 1943 or 1944. Three were totally destroyed as were 188 aircraft. It was a stunning military engagement by any reasonable metric. The Japanese inflicted significant losses on the US, while suffering very minimal losses themselves. That is the standard for a successful military engagement. If the US fleet went to sea, in one engagment that lasted a couple hours, they hit 16 Japanese ships, including most of their battleships, sunk 3, put many others out of service for months to 3 years, wiped out 188 aircraft, killed 2400, while suffering only very minimal losses, WTF would you call that?

Reply to
trader_4

How about providing a few, peer reviewed citations, that prove Roosevelt knew, BEFORE 7 December 1941, exactly when and where the Japanese were going to attack?

If true, this would represent the highest form of treason by any president in history.

Reply to
Stormin' Norman

context. Had the statement been part of of a broader analysis it might hav e been a different issue but it's false no matter how one looks at it.

us and shattering surprise is possible even when we have been warned,? ?

us and shattering surprise is possible even when we have been warned,? ?

As usual, the village idiot weighs in. IMO, and in the opinion of at least one other poster, it's not silly as to whether what Newt tweeted was standalone, as Philo claims, or immediately preceded by another tweet about Pearl that sets the context and paints a different picture.

And WTF exactly are you doing, when you engage in 100 posts about something here?

Reply to
trader_4

Absolutely nothing inappropriate when anyone tells the truth about history, at any time.

The citizens of the USA need to be constantly reminded that we have very capable adversaries who should not be underestimated. For example, IMHO, Trump is underestimating the PRC, he is acting as if all he understands about China he learned by watching the movie "The Sand Pebbles".

Should he actually get us into some kind of trade war with China or mishandle the South China Sea, I would not be surprised to see the Chinese turn a couple of our $ multi-billion carriers into artificial reefs.

Reply to
Stormin' Norman

You're not much of a people person, are you? Philo is obviously not an imbecile. What he IS is someone who cares about what actually happened to the people at Pearl Harbor.

If you understood people, you'd understand he's probably not the only person to "hear" the same thing from the comments Gingrich made. It's an emotionally charged issue, and you've shown you've no skill to understand how or why people would respond emotionally to anything.

Reply to
Muggles

+1 well said.

His facts are clouded by emotion and a general dislike of Gingrich.

Reply to
Stormin' Norman

It takes knowledge on how to "read" an entire scenario and understand it. You, obviously, don't have that skill set.

Reply to
Muggles

Officially they knew an attack was eminent but did not know where or when. It was generally thought to be the Philippines though.

If intelligence was purposely withheld, that's speculation.

Reply to
philo

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