OT: E85 price went over gas price here!

[RickH]

Well the environmentalists pestered everybody for E85 and the market eventually delivered, as GM hung their hat on FlexFuel instead of CNG (or just smaller engines), and ADM ramped up ethanol from corn plants, and gas stations stocked E85. Yesterday I went to fill up and noticed that the price of E85 had gone slightly above the price of regular. When gas was $4 a gallon E85 was always tracking about 75 to 50 cents cheaper. Then as of late E85 was tracking only 10 cents cheaper. Now they appear dancing around par.

Who would buy a low BTU fuel like E85 at the same price as regular? This may be the final nail in the coffin for E85, and I'm from a big corn producing state with a lot invested in production and distribution of E85. So I really dont like to see the subsidies leave the state but I guess they might have to. The environmentalists wont be happy as their precious E85 starts to not be available at the gas stations.

[coloradotrout]

A lot of "environmental" issue are drying up with the change in the economy -- sorta leads you realize that it's behavior that drives waste and inefficiency.

Saw a story on Nightline where the recylers are unable to sell or even move their "product". They are taking in recylables, but there is no market for them. In some cases it's costing them money to get rid of the paper, plastic, etc in what used to be a lucrative business. Also, those "recyleables" are down since fewer products are being purchased (probably mostly cheap, wasteful spending anyway).

IMO -- it's real simple. Waste not - want not. We could do without all the paperboard, cardboard, plastic bags, etc etc if we just altered our behavior. We don't need a 300 million dollar energy initiative. Individuals just need "initiative" of another kind.

[George]

I think the main driver for ethanol was the panic "how are we going to keep the SUVs going" when oil prices climbed. ADM made sure all of the politicians were properly aligned and it happened. And as you said GM thought it was the perfect fit so they could keep selling giant fluffed up trucks because they "burned less gas" not less fuel. And it wasn't only GM. I went to an event and Ford had a big piggy flex fuel expedition that they were proudly displaying as being fuel efficient because it burned less gasoline...

The prices you noted are just make believe anyway because ethanol is highly subsidized so it can be sold below cost.

[Steve Barker]

Anytime E85 is more than 75% the price of the local gasoline, then it's not a deal. And the stations overcharging for it are just ripping people off.

steve

[ransley]

Dont you get 15-20% or so less milage with e85, nobody will buy it unless its alot cheaper.

[Jeff Wisnia]

And that's going to ultimately raise many folks' property taxes on their homes to make up for the money the municipalities are no longer receiving from the recyclers who used to pay them for the stuff. The cities and towns (rightly in my opinion) pushed for recycling by residents, and paid for the increased collection labor and fuel costs by selling off those recyclables.

Jeff

[Stormin Mormon]

I found that 10% ethanol gives greater than 10% mileage drop in my vehicles. So, it takes MORE gasoline to drive 10% ethanol.

[Steve Barker]

not true. Even the 85% E85 only drops mpg by about 20 - 25% . No way E10 would drop it 10%.

s

[G. Morgan]

Where would you even buy 100% gasoline to compare it to?

[Steve Barker]

around where i live just about everyone but Caseys has real gasoline.

s

[ransley]

You mean 100% gas, no 10% alcohol added, here we have had only 90% gas-10% alcohol for maybe 20+ years. Yes less milage, but it wont freeze at -20f when your tank is low and full of junk. E85 wont fly till its subsidised to be much cheaper in mpg to use.

[RickH]

All gas in IL has 10% ethanol, you cant even get pure gas if you wanted it. I was referring to E85 not 10% ethanol gas.

[Stormin Mormon]

My van got 18 MPG when I got it, and about 15.5 on 10% ethanol. Reality trumps your protests.

[Stormin Mormon]

Supposedly some pumps in the Rochester Ny area are 10% alcohol, and some have no alcohol. So, we are led to believe.

[Stormin Mormon]

Supposedly NYS has some real gasoline left. I'm sad that Ill is handicapping you like that.

[Steve Barker]

you obviously figgered it wrong OR just didn't use enough consistancy in filling .

s

[Stormin Mormon]

That is both insulting and condescending. With an approach like that, you will go far in life. Maybe not in a good direction, though.