OT Buying a new truck

[Doug Miller]

Yes, it is. Do the math. You get killed on depreciation. Let someone *else* buy the car new, and pay all the depreciation.

You both drew the wrong conclusion. The correct conclusion is that if a new car, and the same thing used, one year old, are basically the same price -- then they are *both* a bad deal.

Total cost of ownership is *always* lower buying a used car -- *if* you use your head. Buying a one year old used car that's the same price as a new one is obviously stupid. But that doesn't mean that buying new is smart, only that buying new is (in that case) less stupid than buying the one year old used car. Buy three years old, or five years old.

No, they didn't. Your eagerness to buy a new car worked in the car dealer's favor that time.

How much could you have saved by getting one four years old, with 50K on it?

Did you even check?

It obviously makes more sense to buy new than one year old used at the same price -- but it makes still more sense, much more, to buy three, four, five years old used.

And I bet you never even looked at the same thing, four years old, with 40 or

50K miles on it. The price difference would have been thousands.

No, it's not. It's *never* a financially sound decision to buy a new car. It may be less unsound, in some circumstances, to buy new vs. one year old, but that does *not* make buying new a smart thing to do.

[Doug Miller]

And how much for a 4 year old version of the same thing?

[Jules Richardson]

Why? What do you expect from a '11 truck that a used truck from previous years won't give you? (I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad plan, I'm just curious what the logic is)

cheers

Jules

[Hell Toupee]

How you will pay for the vehicle should be a separate discussion that takes place after you've negotiated the price of the vehicle. People tend to assume that dealers prefer cash, but that's not a given. If they have in-house financing and persuade you to use it, they'll make more money with your loan. How you plan to pay will a factor they use when negotiating the purchase price with you (the infamous example is the standard salesman question, "How much do you want your monthly payment to be?" You reply: you will decide to buy based on the final, actual price of the vehicle, not by the monthly payment.)

Be non-committal and tell them you won't decide on how you'll pay for it until after you settle on the purchase price. If they do finance, they may specifically make an offer contingent on your financing with them. Run the numbers and see if it's worth your while. If you were planning on financing, compare their rates and terms to other lenders. If you can buy the loan cheaper elsewhere, tell them so. They may be able to negotiate that, too.

Same for trade-ins - don't bring up your desire to do a trade until you've negotiated the best price you can get for the vehicle you'll be buying. Negotiate the trade-in value afterwards. You should have done your research beforehand to assess the fair trade value, decide what you'll take for it, and what you'll do if you and the dealer can't agree on the trade.

To sum up: all of these factors (purchase, payment/financing, and trade-in) are separate transactions. Mixing them up will confuse things, which almost always works to the dealer's advantage. So don't do it.

And remember, you must always be prepared to walk away...and you need to make that clear. Or they'll steamroll you.

[Doug Miller]

In article , Hell Toupee wrote: [snip various considerations when negotiating with car dealers]

To that, I'd add: and mean it. If you tell the salesman you're going to leave unless the deal gets better, and it doesn't, and you *don't* leave, you've lost *all* negotiating leverage.

The last time I walked out on a car salesman, I hadn't gotten a mile down the road when his boss called me on my cell with a better deal. I wound up buying the car for about 10% less than *that*.

[gpsman]

I called a buddy of mine still working at a dealer. I didn't get him but talked to his secretary. She said factory dealers jacked up used prices to move new cars (re: economy stimulus/jobs) but they weren't paying any more for trade-ins or at the auctions.

So... I'm wrong, but still right (figgers). You can get used car savings if you don't fall for the ruse. -----

- gpsman

[clare]

Actually, there IS a financially sound reason for buying a new car IF you are going to be financing the car AND the dealer is offering zero percent financing. You can often buy the new car for the same or less money than a 2 year old used car at bank finance rates.

If you are paying CASH, a new car NEVER makes financial sense.

[clare]

Bought a mint 6 year old 1988 New Yorker Landau Mark Cross edition with just under 100,000km on it for $5500. 12 years later I sold it with 242,000km on it for $1700. The original purchaser left a little over $35,000 at the dealership when he drove it off the lot.

[krw]

How can anyone always be so wrong.

Whoopie. Look again today.

Try opening your eyes. There is a whole new world out there.

Who gives a rats ass about your '96 flasher?

[clare]

I buy with 60,000 miles on them - 5 or six years old - for $5000 to $6000. Generally, other than tires, brakes and oil changes I spend less than $500 a year - closer to 300. And I drive them up to 12 years before getting rid of them. The last couple years the price goes up

[krw]

Dumbass, if the dealer is telling him of a rebate and not discounting from the sticker, it is *NOT* a dealer rebate.

How do you continue to live? You really are too dumb to breathe.

[clare]

Buying a car on Visa is an AWFULL way to finace a car!!!!!!!

[krw]

Absolutely. Dealers often get pissed when you refuse to talk about payments, though.

With my truck, they were pushing financing. I'd already lined it up from my CU, but told them the number they had to beat. They said they might be able to if I had spotless credit. "Go for it". They did, so I used their financing. I don't care that they made money, as long as they saved mine.

Yep.

All good advice. In fact, when you start out looking, convince yourself that you will *not*, under any circumstances, buy that day. Do the research, decide what you want, and the absolute maximum you're willing to pay, *BEFORE* talking price. If anyone pushes you out of your comfort zone, walk. If you get emotional or attached to the vehicle, walk. You're talking serious money. They really do want it. All. ;-)

[krw]

Take the cash-back and pay it off before the due date.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, How come? We buy most of every thing with plastic. Pay full balance every month. Collect lots of points. Most of our trips/cruises are paid by points.

[Doug Miller]

That doesn't mean that buying a new car is a good idea -- only that it might be a less bad, bad idea, than buying a two year old used car.

If the dealer is offering zero percent financing, you can bet that he's making his money some other way -- like not cutting you much of a break on the price.

It doesn't matter HOW you're paying. It's still not a sound financial decision. Let someone *else* pay the depreciation, and buy the car after it's lost 1/3 to 1/2 of its value.

[Home Guy]

If the dealer would rather get paid cash for the car (for what-ever reason - cash flow, etc) then wouldn't it make sense during the negotiation to tell the dealer you intend to pay cash? Wouldn't that work in your favor if the dealer wants your cash and therefore would be more likely to negotiate a lower price?

If the dealer is assuming you're going to be making payments, and if there's some additional cost for him that he needs to take into account and he's factoring that into the price, and then when you arrive at a price and tell him you're paying cash - haven't you shot yourself in the foot?

I really would like to know if, all else being equal, if (new) car dealers like to see cash-paying customers.

[Home Guy]

That may have been true 20+ years ago, because it's my impression that cars are much more reliable (or durable) than they used to be.

My 11-year-old '00 Chrysler 300m is still running with the original factory battery fer christ sakes. Just about the only thing I do beyond putting gas in the tank is give it an oil change twice a year.

Over the past decade new cars have become almost "maintainence free".

See, the problem here is that once you get past the ridiculously-long standard warranty (what - 5 years, 100k miles?) there's absolutely no garantee that the owner of the car (which could be the second owner by then) is going to have the car serviced at the same dealership that sold the car. And by serviced, I mean the dinky stuff, like oil and fluid changes, tire rotations, wiper blades, brake pads, emissions tests, etc. You're not going to cover your payroll selling that stuff.

Only once they become 5 to 10 years old. Unless they need collision work - which isin't typically done at a dealership.

And much more predictibly over-priced compared to independant or chain service shops.

[aemeijers]

Dealer would PREFER you finance through them- it is a profit center for them. Some dealers charge more for cash customers, since there is no ongoing profit. How-to books I have read said to finance through them, then walk in a week later and pay it off.

I hate car dealers, and will try to avoid buying from them ever again if at all possible. Auction or private-party, like I used to do, before the last two purchases. Both left me slightly bow-legged. In my mind, I knew exactly what they are doing, put after an hour of the BS, I just wanted out of there so bad (which is exactly what they were counting on, of course)....

[gpsman]

Wrong. The factory may demand dealer participation in "factory" rebates.

So I hear, from the most ignorant nitwits Usenet has to offer. -----

- gpsman