OT: 737 Max Ethiopian Crash Report

That's why you use the trim button on the yoke and only disable the electric trim once you have the trim where you want it, to stop the MCAS from trimming it nose down again.

Yes, that's what happened on the Lion Air flight before the one that crashed, the same plane.

Easy to be wise after the event.

And didn't spell out what to do in the manual either.

Yet.

Yes, but with one hell of an impact on their reputation.

And it remains to be seen what it will do if the fix isnt approved quickly.

While that sounds logical, it's not part of the Boeing procedure. Likely to keep it simple and when you have runaway electric trim, you don't know what caused it, what part of it is working, what isn't.

All pilots are supposed to be trained in dealing with runaway electric trim and have the very simple procedure committed to memory. The co-pilot here recognized the problem and they initially followed the correct procedure. Then two minutes later, someone turned the electric trim back on, which was a total deviation from the procedure and apparently was done without discussion and without informing the other pilot. The question is why.

And how do you know how long it takes to adjust the trim by hand? Perhaps you can show us where what you say should be, is actually part of the procedure or training for any aircraft? I haven't seen it. Only for runaway trim, turn off the electric and then trim by hand turning the wheels. That's the Boeing procedure, again probably to keep it simple and because in an emergency you don't know what in the electrical system works and what does not.

That's probably true. If that transcript includes everything said back and forth of any relevance, it's shocking that we don't hear back and forth about who's adjusting the trim by hand via the wheel, what the current trim position is, what it should be, etc. Also really bad that someone apparently turned the electric trim back on without discussion or announcing they were doing it. Also, unless there is another defect we don't know about, whoever turned it on should have had their finger on the up trim button at the time. Instead, the first action after is MCAS shoving the nose down again.

That would be pure speculation. And if that's the case, again, there should have been communication back and forth about what the problem was, why it wasn't working, what needed to be done instead.

You'd expect that after the co-pilot turned off the electric there would have been discussion like:

CP - Trim disabled. Doing nose up trim using the trim wheel, what do we need to target it at?

Pilot - about X

CP, At y, turning it as fast as I can or I can't move it.

etc, etc.

You have always been completely irrelevant.

We have seen the trim wheels spinning at a hell of a rate in the video. Its going to take a long time to wind them back by hand with the electric trim off.

We already know that the procedure was f***ed for the MAX and that there was no specific training on what to do if the MCAS f***ed up, in fact no mention of it at all in the training.

The MCAS f****ng up isnt runaway trim because the trim buttons on the yokes still work fine to override it.

Clearly it resulted in the crash of the Ethiopian.

But trivial to try the trim button on the yoke and use it to override what the MCAS is doing. That’s what he Lion Air pilot did for 15 minutes and it was only when control was handed to the copilot who only used the trim button on the yoke a couple of times more that it crashed.

Not when the other pilot can see the trim being wound back by hand and has so little flight time that he wont have anything useful to offer when that trim is clearly being wound back to slowly.

Again, because the pilot is trying to do something about the fact that winding the trim back by hand isnt happening fast enough and the copilot has so few flying hours that they arent going to be any use when the s*it is hitting the fan so spectacularly.

Presumably because they werent aware of what was forcing the nose down.

Of course it is, but there must have been a reason why the electric trim was turned on again and by far the most likely explanation for that is that they couldn’t wind the trim back fast enough given that we do know that they never got the trim back to anything like where it should have been, manually.

Not when the copilot had so few flying hours.

No need when its so obvious what switches he had just switched.

No point given its so obvious he was doing that.

No point in worrying about any target when they clearly couldn’t get the nose up fast enough to stop it heading the ground at a great rate.

Again, both would have been obvious.

Yeah yeah, when you are flying all planes everywhere, things will be fine.

You just contradicted yourself. If they can spin at a hell of a rate, that would imply that they can be moved quickly.

The procedure for the Max is the same as it is for all other 737s and AFAIK all aircraft with electric trim.

That's true only in the first LA crash. Boeing put out the instructions in an urgent directive right after that. Perhaps you need to pay better attention. And it should not have been necessary, because what was exhibited was runaway trim and they are supposed to have that procedure committed to memory. And it was in the manuals and almost certainly in their training.

The same thing can happen with runaway trim, which is simply the electric trim system behaving abnormally. An intermittent short could produce nose down trim, with one or both pilot;s trim buttons still working.

That isn't clear at all. As I cited there is glaring evidence of mistakes by the two pilots, most prominently the failure to communicate to each other what was going on, what they were doing, etc. Most startling, one of them apparently put the electric trim back on with no verbalization at all. And then they obviously were not following your procedure, because that should have been accompanied by nose up trim on the buttons at the same time. Instead, they let MCAS point it down again. Also evidence of pilot error, not one word about where the trim WAS or where it needed to be MOVED TO. They spent most of their time fighting with the controls, trying to pull back, instead of solving the trim problem making that impossible.

Apparently not that trivial for the Ethiopian crew. Because it looks like they didn't do it and there is not one word exchanged between the two pilots about doing it either.

That’s

Good that you figured that out, I've told you that from day one. It wasn't 15 mins, more like 10, but it was working.

ROFL! It was the CO-PILOT that said to turn off the electric trim! And proper flight crew coordination is not to assume that the other pilot is watching, knows what you're doing, especially in an emergency. You are required to verbalize it. All this has been learned over decades of accidents. For example, even in routine situations, the pilot calls for flap setting one, the co-pilot responds, flap setting on one.

If the co-pilot is of no use, then he shouldn't be in that seat. And regardless, that is no excuse for not verbalizing, not communicating what you are or are not doing. He didn't even make it clear if he was actually trying to move the wheels or his "manual trim" statement meant he was using the buttons that were disabled. THAT is what communication clears up, eg "I can't move the trim wheel", "it's moving slowly, what do want it set at?" There is none of that.

They didn't have to know what specifically was moving it down, though they probably did after the LA crash and the directive. All they had to know was that they had runaway trim and follow the procedure. Unless the aircraft has another defect, which is possible, then this was partly do to pilot error and not following the procedure.

We simply don't know why. We don't even know that they were trying to use the manual trim wheels. It's very suspicious that there is no mention of doing that in the communication. If you watch a simulator, the pilots are communicating that back and forth the whole time. One is flying, the other working the trim wheel, asking if it's OK, do you need more trim, etc.

That's one of the stupidest things you've ever posted and that says a lot.

Sure, according to you. Of course to anyone that's watched pilots communicate we know you're full of s*it. Pilot to co-pilot: gear down Co-pilot to captain, gear down and locked. No, they don't just assume that one knows what switches the other has just screwed with.

Really? And how well did that work out, fool?

BS. Flight crews don't rely on "obvious".

Pilot: flaps one Co-pilot: flaps set to one

Pilot: Set heading to 260 Co-pilot: Heading set to 260

And that's in normal circumstances, when there is an emergency it's even more important. Are you that stupid or do you just like to make an ass of yourself here so you can argue? Are you as sure of all that you just posted as you were of this:

The 737 MCAS doesn't rely on just one AOA sensor (It does)

The FAA would never approve that design (They did)

The data from the FDR on Lion Air has not been released (It was in Oct/Nov)

Boeing doesn't know what caused the Lion Air Crash

The 737 can't be trimmed mechanically (It can)

It's impossible to have a design where it's both electrical or mechanical trim (BS because all 737s and most other planes have both)

The Cessna 150 can't stall (It can, stall speeds are listed by Cessna)

Denies that it's common for FAA to put out directives soon after a crash, requiring inspection of what they believe caused the problem in all similar planes in service. (Of course it's common)

The AOA sensors were a known problem with the 737 Max and were already being replaced at the time of Lion Air crash (total lie)

The FAA didn't ground the 737 Max, Boeing did. (Trump announced the FAA grounding we have it on video)

Pilots are required by law to read the manual in an emergency, before taking action. (speaks for itself)

You have a 50" CRT TV (posted lame pic of a much smaller TV, no tape measure, no model, nothing to verify it

Electric pole transformers can glow orange hot, it's not uncommon (Still waiting for the pics of some of those)

Former leaders have no say in the details of their state funeral (beyond stupid)

The tax rate on capital gains was 93% after WWII (It was more like ~45% max and in the 50s was reduced to just 25%)

No one was buying US manufactured goods just after WWII. (ie the US didn't have a huge advantage as a manufacturing economy with much of the rest of the world destroyed following WWII. Obviously more total lies and stupidity)

Investment isn't for capital gain.

Then you wont have any difficulty listing all those countrys buying US manufactured goods just after the war had ended. (implying that the US wasn't exporting manufactured goods after WWII, as much of the rest of the world was in rubble and rebuilding)

Digital Equipment Stock DEC, was never sold for a capital gain.

Nope.

By the electric trim.

Not with the electric trim disabled.

And clearly didn’t work with the Ethiopian when it isnt runaway trim and was in fact the MCAS driving the nose down deliberately.

Clearly didn’t prevent the Ethiopian crash.

And when the Ethiopian pilot did that, it crashed anyway.

And when the Ethiopian pilot did that, it crashed anyway.

Nope, you can't override that with the trim buttons on the yoke.

Wrong, as always. Runaway trim is the trim driving in the one direction and not being overrideable using the trim buttons on the yoke. Which is why the electric trim is disabled in that situation.

Even more pig ignorant than your previous s*it where you claimed that the fan could have killed the bulb even when the bulb flashed when wiggled which proves that the bulb hasn’t been killed.

Corse it when they failed to get the nose up with the electric trim disabled.

Pointless doing that with the copilot with so few flying hours. He doesn’t have anything useful to tell the experienced pilot.

Because its f****ng obvious that that is being done with the f****ng switches right next to the f****ng trim wheels.

You don’t know why they turned the electric trim on again. For all you know they could have been checking if the fault was still there when they discovered that they couldn’t wind the trim back up manually fast enough to avoid hitting the f****ng ground.

Show us your cite for that. And if it's true, better take it up with Boeing, the other aircraft makers, pilot trainers, etc. Their runaway trim procedure is to disable the electric trim and then trim manually. Which would be pretty stupid if you can't, in fact, quickly trim the plane by hand.

So far, we don't know for sure what exactly they actually did and there is PLENTY of evidence to suggest they didn't follow the correct procedure and then clearly disregarded it, when the electric trim was turned back on. THAT is what lead to the fatal plunge. Also strong evidence that you're full of s*it as usual is that the procedure worked on the LA flight.

More diversion. I never said or implied that it did. YOU claimed that there was no training on what to do if MCAS ran amok. That is BS, which I corrected.

It's not clear from the report so far that they even followed the correct procedure. If they did, why is there no evidence of it in the preliminary report? The investigators could have shown how the trim was starting to change by hand.

There is zero evidence that the Ethiopian PILOTS actually followed the correct procedure.

BS fool. If there is an intermittent SHORT, that puts the trim nose down, you most certainly can override it with the trim buttons. If you don't understand that, you shouldn't be in AHR telling people how to fix a simple home circuit.

Another lie repeated.

It's obviously true. Just how stupid are you? It's like saying that because there is an intermittent short that makes a light bulb flicker on, that means that the normal light switch that operates it can no longer work. WTF? Stupid even for you. I shall add that to your hole of ignorance list.

BS. As already told to you. It was the co-pilot with only a few hundred hours, who called for turning off the electric trim! What a moron you are!

Sure, take that up with any pilot instructors, any major airline and see how far you get. No need to confirm anything when you're in the cockpit, the other pilot is there, he can see it. What a fool.

F****ng amazing. I TOLD YOU that! You're the imbecile that claims it must be because they couldn't turn the trim wheels by hand fast enough!

For all you know they could have

If so, genius, how well did that work out?

Are you off your meds? You're even stupider than usual today.

Its there in that video you posted.

Don’t need to.

The trim wasn’t runaway, the MCAS was deliberately shoving the nose down.

And the best fix for the MCAS having a massive brain fart is to do something that disables the MCAS like lowering the flaps a little and using the trim button on the yoke to run the trim back to where it should be.

Much better to do the above.

No one said it can't be trimmed by hand, f****it.

And since this mindless silly s*it and deliberate lies is the best you can manage, here goes the chain on the rest of your even more flagrantly dishonest s*it.

BS. They quickly got the trim to where it needed to be.

That's runaway trim, a trim malfunction where the trim is running AMOK and going to settings incompatible with the plane remaining in the air. Even you should be capable of understanding that.

The latter is not a fix, MCAS will point it nose down again just 5 secs after the trim button is released.

You said that, you said that the plane can't be trimmed fast enough by hand. Better take that one up with Boeing, all the other aircraft manufacturers, pilot trainers, and the pilots of the LA flight that did trim it correctly by hand.

You mean the part where you posted all this total BS and lies?

The 737 MCAS doesn't rely on just one AOA sensor (It does)

The FAA would never approve that design (They did)

The data from the FDR on Lion Air has not been released (It was in Oct/Nov)

Boeing doesn't know what caused the Lion Air Crash

The 737 can't be trimmed mechanically (It can)

It's impossible to have a design where it's both electrical or mechanical trim (BS because all 737s and most other planes have both)

The Cessna 150 can't stall (It can, stall speeds are listed by Cessna)

Denies that it's common for FAA to put out directives soon after a crash, requiring inspection of what they believe caused the problem in all similar planes in service. (Of course it's common)

The AOA sensors were a known problem with the 737 Max and were already being replaced at the time of Lion Air crash (total lie)

The FAA didn't ground the 737 Max, Boeing did. (Trump announced the FAA grounding we have it on video)

Pilots are required by law to read the manual in an emergency, before taking action. (speaks for itself)

You have a 50" CRT TV (posted lame pic of a much smaller TV, no tape measure, no model, nothing to verify it

Electric pole transformers can glow orange hot, it's not uncommon (Still waiting for the pics of some of those)

Former leaders have no say in the details of their state funeral (beyond stupid)

The tax rate on capital gains was 93% after WWII (It was more like ~45% max and in the 50s was reduced to just 25%)

No one was buying US manufactured goods just after WWII. (ie the US didn't have a huge advantage as a manufacturing economy with much of the rest of the world destroyed following WWII. Obviously more total lies and stupidity)

Investment isn't for capital gain.

Then you wont have any difficulty listing all those countrys buying US manufactured goods just after the war had ended. (implying that the US wasn't exporting manufactured goods after WWII, as much of the rest of the world was in rubble and rebuilding)

Digital Equipment Stock DEC, was never sold for a capital gain.

Are you as sure about what you just posted as all the above?