One circuit often blows

On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:47:23 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson wrote: all kinds of previou stuff snipped -

Current code requires split receptacles on the countertop - at least here in Kitchener/Waterloo Ontario. Adding a dedicated line to the microwave won't give you that - while adding the split will give you a "dedicated" line for the microwave (which is allowed, I believe, to also service the gas oven)

It is a duplex receptacle that has been fed with a 3 wire 220 volt feed, split to 2 110 volt (nominal - I know, generally 230 and 115, but that's just semantics) circuits - also referred to by some on the group as an "edison" circuit, I believe.

The microwave and oven are permanetly (more or less) in one place, and generally not within teach of the sink or water taps, whereas the countertop receptacles can feet things like portable mixers etc that can get within reach of the sink - where you could hold a (leaky) appliance in one hand and touch the sink or tap with the other. Without a GFCI you could get a nasty shock. With a GFCI the breaker will trip and you usually will not even get a tickle.

No, like I said, replace the breaker FIRST as it is about 99.999% likely that it is defective, given the scenario described. What make panel do you have? Certain brands are much more succeptible to failure.

Reply to
clare
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Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has, just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit - get 2 for just a bit more than the one - the labour will be virtually identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3 instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more likely 15% or so.

Reply to
clare

Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? What is the

Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has, just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit - get 2 for just a bit more than the one - the labour will be virtually identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3 instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more likely 15% or so.

You have no idea how many receptacles , circuits, or countertops the OP has. What the OP should do, is determine exactly what his problem is, then fix it and not willy nilly replacing parts like a bad mechanic

Reply to
RBM

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ps.com...

12/3 (forget 14/n for this application) is about 60% more but it's still a trivial amount of money compared to the labor of adding another circuit.
Reply to
keith

Often replacing parts is the cheapest solution. If parts cost is trivial compared to labor it's the way to go. It's a lot better advice to give long-distance, too.

Reply to
keith

s.com...

Hide quoted text -

If the fridge is not on your breaker then I'm leaning towards a weak breaker. Have you figured out what else is on that circuit? Turn it off and check everything; all the outlets in the kitchen and adjacent rooms. If the fridge is on a different circuit then you may be able to manage your usage to avoid the problem. Don't turn on other things on that circuit while you are microwaving. A few lights won't matter.

If you do decide to add a dedicated circuit for the microwave you should be able to do that without messing around with the rest of the existing wiring.

However adding the gfci capability is often easy. It's just a matter of figuring out which outlet in the kitchen is first on the chain of outlets from the box. That outlet would be replaced with a gfci outlet. Even if the kitchen has two circuits in it you simply will need 2 gfci outlets.

Reply to
jamesgangnc

I'm in the process of rebuilding a refrigeration unit in a restaurant right now and I'm having to replace the plug, outlet and some other wiring because it got toasted. The plug got wet and the connection got worse over time because of the heat produced. It's a destructive cycle that happens over time until the wiring is destroyed or equipment stops running. When the voltage drops, the current goes up and heat is produced at the point of every marginal connection and there can be more than one. The spring tension of the electrical outlet contacts is one of the first things destroyed by heat and that leads to a problem connection which can cascade from there by burning up the plug and cord. The Mark-1 eyeball and SM-3-b nose are often the only tools needed to detect the damaged components.

In a home kitchen, folks often spray cleaner on a wall to wipe off splatters and such. The spray often gets into the electrical outlets and onto the plugs which can cause corrosion. The spray can run down the wall and get into the outlet even if there is a plug in it.

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

Often replacing parts is the cheapest solution. If parts cost is trivial compared to labor it's the way to go. It's a lot better advice to give long-distance, too.

I'm not disagreeing with you, however if it's a solution, and it's cheap, great, but if it doesn't solve the problem, it's jus a waste of time.

In many of these situations, if the OP would just answer a few questions, a lot can be determined. In this case the OP has a near new microwave that draws 14 amps. He has a house built in the forties. He does know that the circuit is not dedicated to the microwave, but it's still not clear how many other outlets might be on that circuit. Outlets that may be in other rooms, and drawing current that the OP doesn't know about. It's also not clear if it's a 15 or 20 amp circuit. If it's 15 amp, and not dedicated, and the microwave draws 14 amps, you can change breakers all day, and your not going to solve the problem.

Reply to
RBM

That's kinda redundant, no? "If it works, it works but if it doesn't, you should have done something else", sort of argument.

Others have brought this up. Others have also, rightly, pointed out that circuit breakers weaken after multiple trips. It should be replaced anyway. If that solves the problem, all done. If not, you're right; the problem was something else.

Reply to
krw

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Now THAT is interesting! Just as a matter of intellectual curiosity, what makes the breaker "weaken after multiple trips". Inquiring minds...

=A0It should be replaced anyway.

That seems to be the consensus, so here goes finding an electrician, fingers crossed.

Don't forget to explain about weakening after multiple trips

TIA

HB

Reply to
Higgs Boson

I wrote a reply but guess it didn't make it.

I DID "answer a few questions" multiple times. Made it clear that no other outlets on that circuit, and no outlets in other rooms draw current worth a damn.

Reply to
Higgs Boson

I wrote a reply but guess it didn't make it.

I DID "answer a few questions" multiple times. Made it clear that no other outlets on that circuit, and no outlets in other rooms draw current worth a damn.

HB, you never said if the circuit is 15 or 20 amp. The number is written on the breaker handle. If it is a 15 amp circuit, and your micro draws 14 amps, anything else that may be on that circuit only needs to draw 1 amp to reach the capacity of the breaker.

Reply to
RBM

Well mine is fixed, it began tripping often then wouldnt reset.

So I used a spare breaker and all is well, a 15 minute fix mostly moving stuff to get to the main panel..........

Reply to
hallerb

Not sure, but I think it's wear on the mechanical parts (springs, friction surfaces to determine trip levels, etc.). These things, unless rated as switches, aren't intended to be cycled manually either.

Reply to
krw

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