Older house wiring puzzle

hey this is great, we can keep your making a fool of yourself for YEARS.

and dont forget to ask the people who had home fires caused by insulating K&T, if its a good idea...............

have you ever had a homefire?

good friends did it was horrible.

Back to the same artifacts from the same retarded poster using the same retarded reader.

I answered all your questions and you can't answer any of mine?

Perhaps because your position is nonsense.

gee the NEC agrees with me:) and even created a rule to not insulate around K&T.

you disagree with the NEC, now claim your a master electrician, is that what you said?

how would you feel if a customer insulated around K&T at your advice, had a fire and a child dies?

no doubt your insurance company would cancel your policy, and picture the newspaper headlines. Buds bad advice leads to homefire and childs death.

that would end your electrical jobs forever.

I doubt your even a electrician at all...........

just a jerk homeowner to cheap to upgrade his wiring, trying to justify his decision for his home by spewing garbage here........

Poor hallerb. I answer his questions but he can't answer my questions. Not even one.

For example: Why do many jurisdictions, including at least 5 whole states, allow insulating K&T wiring? Aren't they as smart as you are? Why does your source insulate over K&T wiring? Aren't they as smart as you are?

And: Your? Did you graduate from high school? Did it include English classes?

And: Why should a house with K&T be "better"? Is a house with Romex "better"? Is my house with rigid conduit "better"? How do you manage to ask such stupid questions?

Do you really not know what a master electrician is?

My mother's house was "properly rewired" over 50 years ago. The electricians just re-fed the K&T. Does the NEC allow that now? (Hint: I have answered that numerous times.)

Mike Holt is well known in electrical circles. In his discussion forums why don't electricians share your paranoia about K&T? Are they stupid? Why do they just think K&T is a wiring method that just has to follow NEC rules?

Why are your posts so stupid? Haven't you read I have never had K&T? You can't win on technical issues so you attack?

Have you figured out that your source doesn't agree with you? Why does your source say "properly installed and unaltered K&T wiring is not an inherent fire hazard"? Is your source wrong or are you wrong? You pointed at the "photos of hacked K&T wiring" in your source. Why weren't most of the photos identified as involving K&T wiring? Couldn't your source, which was about K&T wiring, find hacked K&T wiring?

The "Illinois report" was to a state agency about the safety of K&T wiring. Why couldn't the report find significant numbers of house with K&T wiring and insulation where the insulation caused a fire? Weren't the authors as smart as you are? Where is the data about fires in the huge number of K&T houses that have been insulated?

Maybe you could get your little buddies from State Farm to help you with the answers.

Are YOU a master electrician?

Do you know that going against the NEC can put whoever ignores their rules, at liability if something bad happens?

includng a electrician or even municipality building department.........

Can YOU read?

Still no answers to any questions: Why do many jurisdictions, including at least 5 whole states, allow insulating K&T wiring? Aren't they as smart as you are? Why does your source insulate over K&T wiring? Aren't they as smart as you are?

Is a house with Romex "better"? Is my house with rigid conduit "better"? How do you manage to ask such stupid questions?

Do you really not know what a master electrician is?

My mother's house was "properly rewired" over 50 years ago. The electricians just re-fed the K&T. Does the NEC allow that now? (Hint: I have answered that numerous times.)

Mike Holt is well known in electrical circles. In his discussion forums why don't electricians share your paranoia about K&T? Are they stupid? Why do they just think K&T is a wiring method that just has to follow NEC rules?

Why are your posts so stupid? Haven't you read I have never had K&T? You can't win on technical issues so you attack?

Have you figured out that your source doesn't agree with you? Why does your source say "properly installed and unaltered K&T wiring is not an inherent fire hazard"? Is your source wrong or are you wrong? You pointed at the "photos of hacked K&T wiring" in your source. Why weren't most of the photos identified as involving K&T wiring? Couldn't your source, which was about K&T wiring, find hacked K&T wiring?

The "Illinois report" was to a state agency about the safety of K&T wiring. Why couldn't the report find significant numbers of house with K&T wiring and insulation where the insulation caused a fire? Weren't the authors as smart as you are? Where is the data about fires in the huge number of K&T houses that have been insulated?

Why are you unable to answer any questions hallerb?

If 5 states allow it 46 don't.

yeah and the NEC has had a rule against it for many years..........

heck its not just my opinion but ther NECs.

Last I heard there were 50 states. Canada has not yet been accepted as a state.

If you read the "Illinois report" there are 5 states (as of 2000) listed. The report indicates Illinois (and an unknown number of other states) do not have a statewide code, so individual jurisdictions would adopt electrical codes. Some of those jurisdictions have. Unless one went through and looked at all the jurisdictions you have no idea what percentage of houses have modified rules.

As the "Illinois report" states, "looking at the record of the code change, it was not based on data substantiating a actual problems." There was no data indicating a problem used as a basis of the code change. You and hallerb have not posted such data. The "Illinois report" looked for such data and couldn't find it. There are many thousands of houses that have been insulated over K&T. Where is the data indicating a problem?

And why have 5 whole states, (plus additional jurisdictions) modified the NEC rule? Are you smarter than the 5 states (plus other jurisdictions) that have modified the NEC? hallerb refuses to answer.

Why does hallerb's own source insulate over K&T? And that is in hallerb's own state. Last I heard, large areas of PA had no inspection and no requirement that work be done by licenced electricians. Are those houses more of a fire risk than houses with K&T where installation was inspected? hallerb also refuses to say if he is smarter than his own source.

hallerb's only support comes from home inspectors, which you say are "pretty clueless". No other source agrees with hallerb.

Maybe you could answer the questions hallerb refuses to.

You and the home inspectors. Reports to 2 state agencies don't agree with you.

I have answered your questions. Why can't you answer *any* questions?

Have you figured out that your source doesn't agree with you? Why does your source say "properly installed and unaltered K&T wiring is not an inherent fire hazard"? Is your source wrong or are you wrong? You pointed at the "photos of hacked K&T wiring" in your source. Why weren't most of the photos identified as involving K&T wiring? Couldn't your source, which was about K&T wiring, find hacked K&T wiring?

Mike Holt is well known in electrical circles. In his discussion forums why don't electricians share your paranoia about K&T? Are they stupid? Why do they just think K&T is a wiring method that just has to follow NEC rules?

Do you really not know what a master electrician is?

My mother's house was "properly rewired" over 50 years ago. The electricians just re-fed the K&T. Does the NEC allow that now? (Hint: I have answered that numerous times.)

Is a house with Romex "better"? Is my house with rigid conduit "better"? How do you manage to ask such stupid questions?

Why are your posts so stupid? Haven't you read I have never had K&T? You can't win on technical issues so you attack?

ATTACK take a look its you who attacked...........

so are you a master electrician? you threw out the question do you know what a master electrician is...... but NEVER said just exactly whaty qualifications if any you have

Have you two beat this horse dead enough?

-- Doug

no its a war of attrition. bud asked if I knew what a master electrician was, and has refused to answer what his credentials are.........

we both want the last word, heck his looking foolish can go on for years.

my poistion is backed by the NEC, his just a few limited areas

yes, but WHO backs the NEC? Who are they but a bunch of paranoid pencil pushing dorks who don't want to be sued? THEY in themselves have no practical knowledge of the stuff, and I'd bet most of them have never even seen K&T wiring.

f*ck the NEC. and the pencil pushers who wrote it. A good portion of it is irrelevant to real world wiring anyway.

"your [sic] probably defending K&T because your [sic] too cheap to replace yours"

Why are your posts so stupid? Haven't you read I have never had K&T? You can't win on technical issues so you attack?

Already answered. You acknowledged my answer. Now you are too stupid to know.

Just like you were too stupid to figure out that your source does not agree with you. Why does your source say "properly installed and unaltered K&T wiring is not an inherent fire hazard"? Is your source wrong or are you wrong? You pointed at the "photos of hacked K&T wiring" in your source. Why weren't most of the photos identified as involving K&T wiring? Couldn't your source, which was about K&T wiring, find hacked K&T wiring? Why does your source insulate over K&T wiring? Aren't they as smart as you are? Apparently your state, PA, allows insulating over K&T. Why is that? Don't they listen to you?

Why was the NEC change not based on data indicating a problem? Why do many jurisdictions, including at least 5 whole states, allow insulating K&T wiring? Why does your state, PA, also allow insulating over K&T (as is done by your source)? Aren't they as smart as you are?

The "Illinois report" was to a state agency about the safety of K&T wiring. Why couldn't the report find significant numbers of house with K&T wiring and insulation where the insulation caused a fire? Weren't the authors as smart as you are? Where is the data about fires in the huge number of K&T houses that have been insulated?

Mike Holt is well known in electrical circles. In his discussion forums why don't electricians share your paranoia about K&T? Are they stupid? Why do they just think K&T is a wiring method that just has to follow NEC rules?

Do you really not know what a master electrician is?

My mother's house was "properly rewired" over 50 years ago. The electricians just re-fed the K&T. Does the NEC allow that now? (Hint: I have answered that numerous times.)

Why can I answer your questions but you can't even answer one of my questions?

thats a interesting position, i suppose you feel GFCIs, arc fault breakers, grounds, and generator lockouts are all unnecessary?

The insurance companies don't know if it was done correctly - so many say NO K&T and others require certification by a qualified electrician that any remaining K&T is properly connected and in safe condition. It only makes sense on the part of the insurance companies, as they are extremely RISK AVERSE.

A house wired with K&T in the '20s, supporting today's normal life-style, is NOT adequate, and NOT safe. A house with a new modern service and additional circuits added properly, with unmolested K&T handling all the "modern" loads and only normal lighting supported by K&T is ain all likelihood safe - BUT How many houses wired with K&T in the '20s (or even up to the early '40s) has "unmolested K&T wiring" with properly installed modern wiring updates???

Not too many - and when going to the work of installing the extra required modern wiring, the work required to replace the K&T circuits is very small potatoes in the grand sceme of things.

I like GFCI's. I won't use one in my own house, but in the rentals, i have them all over.

Arc fault i think is a waste of time and will cause many many more problems than they could ever think of solving.

Grounds, good.

Generator lockout?? Well I don't use one, but then again, i know how to pull my main, and also have ways of knowing when the power comes back on with my main pulled.

not only that but if you have a home with K&T your far better off to replace the wiring before insulating......

fishing new wires thru insulated cavaties is a PIA. and today who wants home without insulation?

even the OP of this thread said the K&T was hacked.

no doubt there are very few unmolested original K&T installations still in existence