No grounds in my 1950 house

stars1234 · 2006-10-23T06:09:56+00:00

I'm sure this question comes up often, but I have a bit of twist on it.My house was built in 1950. I purchased it in 1971.When I looked at the wiring, I knew nothing of electrial boxes andactually didn't even think to ask where it was. I was satisfiedthough, because I noticed that all the power recepticals were of thethree-prong type, which indicated to me a grounded system.It wasn't until a couple of years later, when painting and taking offthe face plate, did I discover that the wiring was only two conductorRomax, with the two prong sockets removed and the three prong, with theground installed.--but it the ground went nowhere. Every outlet, isfake as far as grounding goes. I was/am very unhappy about this.Financially, I can't afford to rewire the house, although itdesperately needs it. Since finding the "no ground" ground, I'vefound copper wire, spliced to aliminum, no consistent color scheme forhot, neutral. The circuit breaker panel appears to have been hackedinto the wall, which is on the stairs and hidden behind the stairwaydoor when it is opened. The panel is completely exposed. EMF fieldsare strong. I can't tell the amps of the breakers, but I know if I runthe microwave and an electric mixer at the same time in the kitchen,withing five minutes, the breker trips. There is no Master Disconnect. When the refridgerator kicks on or the washing machine is turned on(they are on different breakers) the house lights flicker, some of theelectrical outlets in the basement are in the ceiling (I don't thinkthey could get a box into the concret foundation. In the upstairs,there are a few recepticals on interior walls which have been plasteredin--no attention to whether there was a stud anywhere. Along theperimeter walls, which are made of plaster, over metal lathe, overcinder block and an outside brick veneer, evidently, holes were cutinto the cinder block for the outlet box and the box and wire,plastered into the wall. Oh, the downstairs wiring, which is in...

S

stars1234 19 years ago

yeah, my problem with the computers, et al. could very likely be the wiring. My VOM tells me that the AC is 125 instead of 120 or 110. don't have an osciliscope to look for spikes but I bet they are all over. --do I have to get that AC down to at least 120? I assume the

125 (I've measure it with three different VOMs is because my house is the 1st on the power line transformer?

My best bet then is to go out and buy a bunch of 20 amp GFCI from Harbor Freight? --will they work without being grounded?

I hope the GFCIs will protect me at least to the point of a fault and subsequent shock, not kill me.

Do I need one--at the head outlet (if I can find it--suggestions as how to do that?) or replace everyt receptical throught the house and mark them, ungrounded?

The GFprotectors at Harbor Freight are $6 for a 20 amp . Is that a good price or should I go to Lowes/Home Depot and get cartons of them?

For an actual outside ground that I could bring inside, I'd have to drive a rod into the ground. Then attack copperbraid to it and bring it inside to a terminal from which I can, with wire, connect that to the circuit box. (At least that's how it was done many years ago, when a single room on the house where I grew up was rewired. Here though, about all it will do is ground the panel.)

Using a cold water pipe, I don't think will work. Correct me if I am wrong. As soon as it goes out of the house, it connects to the city mains by plastic pipe.

What's the best way to get a copy of the code for my city, without raising any questions as to what I am doing?

Bob

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John Gilmer 19 years ago

Yes. You are supposed to label the outlets as not being grounded but the label, obviously, doesn't protect anyone.

Well, you can start at the "head" and find out what outlets go out when you "test." If you have a few places where you might EXPECT faults you might want to have a separate GFCI there even if you have to put some others on the "string."

Remember that most of your real loads are just two wires. Whether the outlet (or the house) as a good ground just doesn't make any difference.

That's pretty good.

There SHOULD be a ground at the meter and/or the service entrace. At this point neutral is bonded to ground.

You find the "ground" that was bonded with the neutral at the service entrance or meter box and you make damn sure you bond any "extra" grounds (water pipe, extra rods) to that "official" ground.

Duh!

Unless it's a very small town, you just go to where the permits are issued and ask. You don't need a reason: it should be a public document.

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S

stars1234 19 years ago

Yeah, off to get GFCI, now just have to decided between 15 or 20 amps. I see at the panel both kind of breakers.

My father-in-law, a retired electrician who wired large warehouses and the like, just cursed and cursed as he worked--finally giving up on some things.

The panel he put in is a 100 amp with a main. Can I count on that to kill the power to the breaker box if I'm going to be fooling around in it trying to establish a ground?

In looking at the power meters, I can see no sign of a ground--anywhere. They must have used water pipe? I see a stranded, heavy wire that goes to the meter, but don't know if that's supposed to be a ground/neutral or just there to hold up the other two wires.

Yeah--duh! All the water pipe in the house is no longer grounded--some since it ran into PVC was never grounded. The reason for using plastic (PVC or whatever it's called) to the city mains is because the hard water here eats real pipe like it was candy. People with metal pipe have to replace it every five years or so. Those with PVC seems to last 10-15. So all the plumbers put in that in this area.

John Gilmer wrote:

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