Neighbors fence on my property.

[Ashton Crusher]

Taking action that potentially is destroying someone else's property because you think you understand what the statue SAYS and assuming what it says is what it MEANS. And also assuming that CASE LAW has not changed what seems like it's clear meeting to something else entirely.

Yup, it might look to the layperson that it's all just black and white. Yet there could have been dozens of others that have gone down that road before you and the result of their court cases could be that what you THINK it says is not how the courts have interpreted it. So it would be very foolish to take action in this day and age without spending $50 to consult an attorney.

I didn't say you would, I said you might. I don't know all the possibilities. Is it really on the wrong property? Will a court agree with you when you are sued? Are you prepared to pay the other parties court costs if you lose? Will tearing down the fence possibly result in their house being burglarized due to the lack of the fence? In this case, the

Was the survey done and stamped as a LEGAL BOUNDARY survey or just a "we'll be pretty close survey" so you can feel comfortable that the house is pretty much at least 6 feet from the property line? Were all monuments found and if not were any missing ones relocated from proper reference points?

Let's say the OP gets another survey,

Same question about the type of survey. It's entirely possible both survey's you seem to value so highly would have both been "preliminary" type surveys relying on the same relatively easy to find reference points, such as a water pipe, but not true original reference points of pipes placed in 4 feet of concrete that are perhaps a mile or two away.

Spend thousands suing him over a case the

No one will stop you if you are in that situation and you elect to be stupid and tear down a fence without consulting an attorney or even notifying and discussing it will the other property owner. The advice was being offered to someone who asked for opinions and that's mine - consult an attorney before doing something STUPID like thinking you know the ins and outs of the statue and case law on this.

[Ashton Crusher]

Perhaps you do. Or perhaps your lien will expire. For example, In AZ A mechanic?s lien is automatically extinguished unless a lawsuit is filed to foreclose the mechanic?s lien within six months after the recording of the mechanic?s lien.

Have you filed a lawsuit?

[CRNG]

On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 16:30:38 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03 wrote in Re Re: Neighbors fence on my property.:

Ralph didn't mention it, but I would guess that the lawyer got a court order awarding the attorney fees and fence move costs. The lien is recorded on the deed at the recorder's office. Generally, no bank will lend on the property unless the lien is removed.

I guess technically, someone could buy the property for cash (no loan) with the lien still attached, but then that new owner would then be responsible for the lien (including the mounting interest).

[dadiOH]

It doesn't have to be - probably isn't - a mechanic's lien. A lien is just an encumbrance against the property for whatever reason and that encumbrance is recorded. When the property is sold, any liens will be paid by the escrow company.

What happens if an escrow company isn't used? No idea but I'm guessing he could go after both the seller and buyer.

[dadiOH]

What does drug testing have to do with a fence?

[trader4]

to 6 inches in places. We have known about this since we moved in but fel t that 6 inches wasn't anything to really worry about. However, this neigh bor has been nothing but a pain in the behind. Last year he tried to claim 2 feet of our yard because a next-door neighbor was putting up a fence. H e hired a company to survey the property which clearly shows the fence is o n my property. Now he is blowing his yard waste through the fence and into my yard along with any sticks/branches that fall from his trees over the f ence into my yard. We had planned on ignoring the 6 inches but now I want him to move the fence in accordance with city ordnance of 6 inches inside t he property line.

ve had my limit. He was blowing leaves into our yard last night and I poli tely stated, "Mr. Howard I would appreciate it if you did not blow your yar d waste into my yard." He became very belligerent and hostile, accused me of having an unkempt yard and kept calling me sweetheart. He said "There's nothing you can do to stop me sweetheart." Sorry but that just sounds lik e a challenge to me and I've had enough of his condescending ways towards w omen.

1" I agree. But if it's 6" it's not hard to make the claim. You have one surveyor who already apparently showed that the fence is on the wrong property. If you hire your own surveyor, he will give you a survey that shows the fence on it and which property it's on. He'll leave pins in the ground at the property corners. With a string and a camera you take pics. If the area is long, winding, or has other issues, then I agree, it could be more difficult. But for a typical straight backyard fence, if it's off by 6" it should be easy to prove.

I don't believe you can take such a case to small claims, at least not to force the neighbor to take down a fence. Small claims court is generally limited to monetary judgements and maybe the return of some personal property, that kind of thing. They typically can't order someone to do something. If you wanted to try it, you'd have to first determine if small claims is the right venue.

The point is that if I put up a nice new fence on my own property that replaced an old crappy fence, the "damage" the neighbor has suffered, even if it's later determined that I was wrong, is questionable. The purpose of a fence is to separate the properties. There is one there now that's better than the old one. So, even if I tore an old one down by mistake that was just on his side of the property and replaced it with one of my own that is on my side, it's not clear to me that the neighbor has suffered real, measurable damage.

And it's probably not the cost of just moving anything, because I tend to doubt a neighbor taking down an old fence that's on his property is going to do it in such a fashion as to save it, keep the fence, etc. The old fence would probably be in the dump. As I see it, if I was wrong, but did it based on a survey, reasonable evidence that lead me to believe the fence was on my property, etc, the most the neighbor would get is the depreciated value of his old fence. If it's 15 years old, cost $2000 new, maybe he gets $500.

An inch, I would agree. Some of it is 6" over though. We don't know how much of it is off by 1 vs 6. And if the neighbor is a hostile AH, you're OK with letting them establish a possible legitimate claim for adverse possession, by you doing nothing? Or as time goes on, the neighbor puts in trees, shrubs, etc that then make it even more difficult of a problem for you to reclaim your land?

If it was a neighbor you got along with, that would be a different story.

[trader4]

to 6 inches in places. We have known about this since we moved in but fel t that 6 inches wasn't anything to really worry about. However, this neigh bor has been nothing but a pain in the behind. Last year he tried to claim 2 feet of our yard because a next-door neighbor was putting up a fence. H e hired a company to survey the property which clearly shows the fence is o n my property. Now he is blowing his yard waste through the fence and into my yard along with any sticks/branches that fall from his trees over the f ence into my yard. We had planned on ignoring the 6 inches but now I want him to move the fence in accordance with city ordnance of 6 inches inside t he property line.

ve had my limit. He was blowing leaves into our yard last night and I poli tely stated, "Mr. Howard I would appreciate it if you did not blow your yar d waste into my yard." He became very belligerent and hostile, accused me of having an unkempt yard and kept calling me sweetheart. He said "There's nothing you can do to stop me sweetheart." Sorry but that just sounds lik e a challenge to me and I've had enough of his condescending ways towards w omen.

Neither I nor anyone else state or suggested that approach.

I'll bet it's going to cost a lot more than $50. A typical attorney isn't going to know all the case law on fences, unless you happen to get lucky and find just the right guy. Hell, I've seen attorneys here screw up real estate closings. You know what they say about advice being only as good as what you pay for. Typical lawyer is going to give you some general advice, tell you they'll write a letter, look into it, etc. Then they turn it over to their paralegal and the billing clock starts running.

But I also said it would be a good idea to get an opinion. Some lawyers will give you a free initial consulation, but again, you know what they say about free advice.

Since you're talking about losing your shirt, I thought it was a foregone conclusion that you're going to lose.

Are you prepared to pay the other

If they sue me for tearing down their 15 year old fence that cost $2000 when new, it's likely the case is going to small claims where the costs are $50. The neighbor would have to be pretty dumb to run up many thousands in trial attorney fees over "possible" recovery of a couple thousand bucks and they would be paying those fees if they lose. And in some cases, even if they win, they could paying some or all of those fees.

Will tearing down the fence possibly

Would seem that would be extremely unlikely to prove, unless the fence is part of an extensive security type fencing installation.

That's why I clearly said I'd hire my own surveyor to show where the fence is located.

Good grief. If you're going to get a survey to prove which property the fence is on, it would be extremely dumb not to explain that to the surveyor and that you want a survey that clearly shows where the fence is versus the property line. But I guess maybe that's what some people need to spend $500 to have a lawyer tell them.

It's entirely possible both

And again, I never offered advice to just tear the fence down based on the OP's reading or interpreting laws.

[trader4]

Derby's point is that you can't just go place a lien on anyone's property at will. That's why he's asking for the details. I'd like to hear them too. I would think that in order to put that lien on the neighbor's property he would have had to sue them in court and win. Perhaps they did, via small claims, but it would be informative if we knew more of the details. I doubt that a mechanic's lien would work. The neighbor had no contractual relationship with those who moved the fence, didn't hire them, etc. And Ralph is saying he'll get his lawyer's fees as part of the lien. Possible the lawyer sued them and they ignored it, he got a default judgement.

[DerbyDad03]

Yep...everyone else is just explaining how liens may or may not work. Since Ralph said he has a lien against the house, apparently for both the attorney's fee and the contractor's fee, that's the lien I want to hear the details on.

While there are certainly lots of members of this esteemed group that are very knowledgeable about all sorts of liens, I'm guessing that Ralph is the only one qualified to supply the details of his specific lien.

...snip...

[jeff_wisnia]

Izis what you're writing about?

Jeff

[bob haller]

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