Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

Cut them with a reciprocating saw or a 4 1/2" angle grinder and a cut off wheel. Wear face protection and a GFCI.

Use Fernco couplings to transition to Schedule 40 PVC DWV pipe. All sorts of connector types shown below. The more common ones will be available at any home center. If you need something special, you may need to contact a plumbing supply house.

Fernco couplings were basically invented for this type of situation.

Agree. First try to figure what pipe that is there is still sound. That can be impossible because it rusts away from the inside out. Cut it wherever it's most accessible, nothing wrong with taking out 5 extra feet and some more fittings for example if it makes it easier. I would probably use ABS for drain pipe, but either that or PVC is acceptable.

Once you get it cut and can inspect it better you can access how bad it is. Long term problem is that usually once it starts to go, there will be other problems coming from what's left there. Which is why they don't use steel anymore.

On May 18, 2022, Marilyn Manson wrote (in article<news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com):

Thanks for all your advice as I've done "normal" plumbing before, but never "waste" pipe plumbing (most of my work was copper or 3/4" & 1/2" galvanized, or landscape white PVC).

Cutting them isn't any problem (the only problem is the crawl space is narrow in terms of doing anything, especially anything long, such as twisting a pipe would take with a long pipe wrench - and 20-foot steel pipes would be unwieldy as they must way scores of pounds each).

Thanks for those keywords as I don't know any of the keywords yet. I always thought they used ABS (the black stuff), don't they?

I found a few leaks while I was in the crawl space so I also will be replacing a few 20-foot lengths of the drain pipe too.

I need to figure out what material to use first, I guess.

Looking up what is Schedule 40 PVC DWV pipe

However, it seems schedule 40 is slightly different from drain/waste/vent. Same material, apparently, but the schedule 40 has thicker walls it seems.

ABS is a different material. Is that black ABS also possible to use?

But can non-threaded PVC go into a typical cast iron Y shaped pipe which is in the cement at the kitchen outside drain and at the garage outside drain plus?

I wonder if those cast iron Y shaped cleanouts can be removed? They seem cemented into the wall.

Do they typically come out with a sledgehammer? If so, do you replace them with PVC/DWV/ABS (which seems much weaker)?

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Feel free to use anything labeled as DWV - drain/waste/vent.

Just make sure you use the correct size in the correct locations. Bigger is not better. Connect a 1.6 gal toilet to a 10" drain pipe. How far do you think the solids will travel? Answer: They won't. They need to be suspended to flow and as the bottom of the pipe approaches "flat" they will just sit there.

Not sure what a "typical cast iron Y" is. There are so many different styles.

In any case, two options come to mind, depending on how the pipe enters the Y.

Cut the pipe, leaving a stub sticking out of the Y and then use a Fernco no-hub coupling to transition to PVC.

There's that "typically" word again.

Most things will come out with a sledge hammer if you work at it hard enough. Not knowing what you have I'm not going to comment on using that specific tool other than to say that I'll bet there's a better way to accomplish your goal.

Entire houses, commercial buildings, etc. are plumbed with all PVC. Why do you think weaker/stronger is important here? What is the metal Y doing that requires more "strength" than a PVC one would provide?

It's what is most commonly used for waste pipe.

Sounds like that's the very old cast iron where one inserted into the other and was joined with hot lead. I'd try to avoid getting to that, if you can. But there must be some modern solution to mate with it if you have to, IDK what that is though.

IDK what exactly you have.

All the new work is using that, so yes. My house it's ABS all the way to the street.

On May 19, 2022, trader_4 wrote (in article<news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com):

I did that yesterday and I found out there are three leaks & a drain clog.

I'm going to replace every pipe that leaked at the very least. Plus whatever has to be replaced in order to replace those pipes that leaked.

At the most, it's going to be two twenty foot sections (each of which has a pinhole leak), and the rusted out nipple at the "Y" shaped drain cleanout.

The problem is the drain cleanouts are apparently cemented in. Are they? How do you replace them without destroying the concrete there?

The pipe is easier than those two drain cleanouts, one of which is leaking at a nipple but it might break or might be too corroded inside to reuse.

What seems to have happened is that there was a long term (years!) clog that used to back up into the sink she told me but then stopped backing up.

That's because it rusted out the nipple and leaked there instead. I cleaned out the clog with a 100 foot snake so that's gone for now.

The question is HOW to fix this at the least expense possible where replacing all the damaged pipe is a given. It's only with what? White Schedule 40 PVC? White DWV PVC? Black ABS?

Digging on the Internet I think DWV is better than Schedule 40 not for strength but for the fact that the connections are apparently different.

The DWV connections have smaller bumps on the seams to let water flow. But I don't know anything about ABS yet so I have to explore that.

And the BIG PROBLEM is what to do with the two "Y" shaped cleanouts which are seemingly CEMENTED into the foundation. That's an issue.

To be clear on my skills, I've done copper/galvanized/pvc plumbing repairs before, but never drain pipes and never these cemented in drain cleanouts.

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

When discussing "DMV pipe" and Schedule 40 pipe, it's not really "one or the other".

Schedule 40 is a thickness specification.

DWV is an acronym for Drain Waste Vent.

Pipes that will be under pressure must use Sch 40 (or greater). "Basic" DWV pipes are not rated for pressure (or heat). However, there is in fact Sch 40 PVC DWV pipes. I suggested that in my first response.

Many people use Sch 40 DWV because it doesn't sag as much as basic DWV and, being thicker, has slightly better sound deadening ability.

Where it gets even more confusing is when we introduce Sch 40 Foam Core DWV vs. Sch 40 DWV into the discussion:

I addressed that in an earlier post.

I don't see any cleanouts in the 4 above pics.

I think you have a bigger project here. One of those pics shows a section of pipe where it is shot and leaking in the middle. So all that old galvanized should be replaced.

I would use ABS, because it's black and traditionally it's been used for waste and you already have some of that there in one pic. But you can use either that or PVC.

IDK anything about that part, but both ABS and PVC can be used. Price could be a factor, especially in the current environment. ABS has been more widely used in the past, IDK current practice, but you have some ABS there already, why mix it up?

I still haven't seen those

This is just like PVC, except you have to connect at some point to whatever steel or iron there is. If you don't want to be doing this again in another section, I would do all of it or as much as accessible. At least do all of this whole run to a logical point where it terminates. Then if another run serving something else leaks you could to that whole run later. All the galvanized should be treated as shot. If it eventually gets to a cast iron waste pipe, probably where it exits the building, that should be OK, it's much thicker.

Hopefully this is just one story. If it's two then you have a much bigger problem, because second story pipes are not accessible. Even one story may require opening walls for access in some spots.

On May 20, 2022, trader_4 wrote (in article<news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com):

This is the back side of the washing machine cleanout "Y" shaped pipe.

Yep. I will be replacing at least two twenty-foot sections of the 2-inch galvanized pipe with (probably) ABS plastic and Fernco connections.

I "might" do all the drain pipe while I'm at it though. I have to decide how much I want to tackle at the same time.

The only part that may be difficult, I think, since I've never done it, is the "Y" shaped metal cleanouts may be "cemented" into the wall for all I know.

I'll use whatever pipe is supposed to be used.

It's already mixed up, but my problem is only how to get the cleanouts done since they "appear" to be cemented into the foundation (which is a bitch if they are). They may simply be sitting on the foundation though. I can't tell.

They're in all the pictures but you're looking at only the backside. The front side is where you already saw the black ABS.

Look at the _bottom_ of that picture for the cleanout.

Do they make a square socket to get cleanouts open?

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Only the first pic opens and I still see no clean outs.

OK, now I see a cleanout. Once the pipes on the other side are free, you can probably drive that out with a big hammer without too much trouble. They probably made a hole then just filled it back up a bit with cement, not likely it's holding all that much.

IDK, if there is one, I've never used it but why do you need to get it out? It's going to be replaced, isn't it?

On May 22, 2022, trader_4 wrote (in article<news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com):

I'm "worried" about replacing the Y shaped drainouts only because I don't know if they're cemented in or not since they _look_ like they're cemented.

Is it normal for a plumber to not even look at the pipes under the floors?

Anyway, I can do it for her for whatever the price of the 2-inch pipes are, which I will use whatever is the "right stuff" (I'm presuming ABS DWV but I don't really care as long as it's whatever is the "right stuff" to use).

I'll go to Home Depot, probably tomorrow, and buy three sections of 20 foot

The problem I will have isn't going to be the straight drain pipes because I can just cut them with a sawzall or angle grinder with a cutting blade and Fernco them. The plumber said anchors must be every four feet by code.

The only problem I'll have is those Y shaped drainouts since I don't know _how_ they put them into the wall. If they're cemented in, I'm not going to be chipping away at her foundation just because I don't want to ruin it.

I know how to do PVC but I'll need to google youtube to learn how to glue the ABS DWV if that's "the right stuff". Someone else said I had lots of choices but I don't want choices. I just want to use "the right stuff."

I might end up doing what the she said the plumber wanted to do which is cut the pipes off at the bathrooms on one end of the house and just replace everything.

The plumbing starts at the kitchen and washer dryer in the garage and then goes downhill down the house (a one-story railroad type) to the two full bathrooms at the other end where it goes 90 degrees to the street about 50 or 75 feet away.

Do they usually plumb new work forward the way water flows downhill to the bathrooms or do they work uphill from the bathrooms to the kitchen, or doesn't it matter? There are more connections in the bathroom area.

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Perhaps it was me, and I'll say it again: You have choices. There is no single "right stuff" - unless your local code specifies it. Anything labeled DWV, whether it's ABS, Sch 40 PVC. Sch 30 PVC, etc is "the right stuff".

Here, take it from a professional:

I'd forgotten that ABS doesn't need primer. That further cements the decision for me. One less thing to buy and one less step at every joint.

No argument about your purchases and installation comment, but it tosses the other factors aside, specifically strength, noise and, if you care, BPA. (In a drain pipe? I'm not sure why anyone would care. ;-) )

Per that site:

"PVC is thought to be better at muffling the sound of running water."

Maybe in a crawl space, sound doesn't matter, but it I was running a drain above a dropped ceiling in an e.g. finished basement, I might take sound deadening into account.

However, my main point was to respond to Ron's comment " I don't want choices. I just want to use "the right stuff." "

In this case, he can choose between different types of the "right stuff".

On May 23, 2022, Marilyn Manson wrote (in article<news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com):

I'm going to do it soon. I read everything that was provided (and I watched every video provided).

As you know, I'll use whatever "the right stuff" is to the local town code (which they owe me a call back on from the town to confirm).

If I have a choice I'll take the best "the right stuff" which may be whatever Home Depot has in stock for all I know.

I don't really care if it's two part solvent/glue or one part though, as that's a level of detail that doesn't matter. Nor the sound deadening.

What's important is the flow rate, but that's likely more a function of the design (which I will just copy) and the slope (which seems to be somewhere around 1/4 inch per foot or so.

I don't know if it's 2 inch or 3 inch pipe so I will bring a measuring tape and measure the circumference when I go there later this week. It may be anything from 4 inches at the bathrooms to 2 inches based on the videos.

I did learn the elbows for DWV are sloped and never at a 90 degree which is important for water flow (the old steel ones seem to have a 90 degree T).

Since she has clogs yearly I'll see if I can slightly increase the slope but I read somewhere that you don't want to increase it too much (for reasons that make sense) so I'll match or slightly increase the slope at best.

I'll also make sure there are hangers every four feet. I'm still debating how much I will replace as I'd like to replace as little as possible given steel is really nice stuff (it lasted 75 years) and I don't trust plastic.

But I haven't seen a video yet that uses steel as a replacement so it's going to be the right stuff plastic for that reason alone, but also because I'd have to measure perfectly to have Home Depot thread the steel.

If I cut anywhere the steel I'll Fernco it to the plastic. I think I'll try to keep the two Y cleanouts just because they're cemented in (even if it's just a patch which I don't know if it is yet). But I'll buy two of them anyway just in case I have to replace them. Since one is outside, the black plastic may have a problem with the sunlight that steel doesn't have a problem with. If anything, since that's not the one leaking, I may leave that one alone if I can.

Is there anything I should add (like a valve or cleanout or disconnect)? Is Home Depot the best place to get the parts?

Since there is a fixed beginning and end, the average slope is fixed. The most you can do is even it out if there are some sections with too little pitch.

Good grief, it's exactly the opposite. Galvanized pipes were a disaster, as you are seeing right now. I'm sure plastic won't last forever either, but it's a hell of a lot better.

Good luck unscrewing the pipes. And if you don't and instead cut off and leave some steel, then you just have another failure point coming in the future, sooner or later.

But I'll buy two of them

Put a cover over it if you're worried about that, I wouldn't. If it shows signs of problems many years from now, someone can unscrew it and put in another one for $2.

IDK check the prices. I'd look at Lowes too.

Consider a plumbing supply house, such as where contractors shop. For the occasional fitting, I don’t mind shopping at a home center or hardware store. For bigger jobs, both plumbing and electrical, I prefer the supply houses. The main disadvantage is that you need to know what you need as there isn’t any browsing. Some places (or staff) are more open to helping out the DIY’ers than others. Of course, the home center’s rarely have anyone who knows what they are doing either, so you kind of need to know what you need when shopping there too.

The supply houses have fittings and options that a home center won’t, so explaining what you want to do may open possibilities that you hadn’t considered.

I cut out most of the bad steel pipe today but had to stop because I didn't know there was a long 1-1/2 inch steel vent pipe going up, presumably through the roof (although it's not apparently attached to the roof vent).

The 1-1/2 inch steel vertical vent pipe weighs a ton. And it's something like 20 feet long (or whatever).

How is a 20 foot long vertical 1-1.2 inch steel vent pipe removed?

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

"Presumably through the roof" and "although it's not apparently attached to the roof vent"

IOW, you don't know where it goes and you don't know what it's for.

Keep in mind that we are not on site, nor do we know exactly what you have done so far. Therefore my first question is this:

Did you cut the bottom of that pipe or did you find in it's present condition, just hanging there with the bottom not attached to anything?

If it's not attached to anything and you don't know what it's for, why do you feel that you need to remove it?

Second question: Have you looked on the roof to see if it comes out? There could be more than one vent.

Another option is to call a plumber and have them scope the pipe to see where it goes. (I've got videos of my main drain, down through the roof vent and all the way out to the street.)