Orangeburg Drain Pipe

[Charles Bishop]

A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for signing up.

[1]

Thanks for any help.

Charles

[trader_4]

There is probably some truth to what he's saying. Old OB pipe that has root intrusion probably isn't in the greatest shape. But on the other hand what does she have to lose by having it snaked? Is this 50 ft section in an area where it can't easily be trenched and replaced that way? I would think you could do that for less than $17K. If it's accessible, then what does she have to lose by trying the snake? If it fails, then trench. I would think there is a good chance you could snake it and it would be fine. Where are the roots coming from? Consider getting rid of the offending tree?

[Ed Pawlowski]

He has some good point and root intrusion is a well known problem. It may not have to be dug and replaced though. Many pipes can be relined in place.

Still not cheap though.

[dpb]

...

If it's begun failing, a new line is in the future, sooner or later; how much later is, of course, indeterminate before it just becomes totally unserviceable.

Would basically agree with previous poster altho I suspect that snaking it will likely shorten the above time but again by how much is unknowable.

Unless it is extremely deep and/or the soil is very difficult, 50-ft could be hand-trenched and replaced for considerably less than $17,000 unless it's under a patio slab and/or other obstructions.

Too little information to make a complete assessment, but I'd also wager there are far less expensive solutions but if it's operational again at the moment, I'd suggest the best alternative for the present is do nothing but starting looking at the replacement options.

[Dan Espen]

I'm not a plumber, just a home owner. If a pipe has roots in it, that's a sign it's not watertight. The roots will keep coming back, each time quicker and thicker.

I think it would take quite a while for the snake to fully degrade the pipe, but the roots will degrade the pipe each time they intrude.

It's not clear to me why 50 feet of pipe would take 17K to replace or add a liner. When I had a similar problem with gutter drain pipes, I dug them up and replaced the bad section. Total cost was the price of the new pipe.

Of course the gutter pipes were only a few inches down although I did end up uncovering a part of the system that was 3 feet down.

The liner should be a lot cheaper than replacement. I'd rather have the pipes replaced because that new PVC stuff lasts just about forever.

There are chemicals you can pour down the drain that kill roots. Not good with septic tanks. I like to actually fix problems, it's part of owning a home, but chemicals would be way cheaper and might serve as a temporary solution.

[Jack G.]

I have had the same problem for the past five years and after the plumber cleared the roots I started using root killer every Spring and Fall with no problems but I know when I sell my house the pipes will have to be replaced.

[Steve Stone]

I'd get three estimates and go with the guy with the middle price, unless one of the others offers a unique option that you just gotta have.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I admire your energy to hand trench 50' by a minimum of 4' deep.

[Stormin' Norman]

Get multiple opinions / estimates. If it must be replaced, save yourself a bundle of $$, hire some laborers to dig it up. Plumbers charge you their regular hourly rate for excavation.

If you excavate, buy the pipe, remove the old pipe and simply pay the plumber to install and connect the new pipe, you should be able to do it all for $3k - $4k.

[dpb]

Been dere, dun dat! :) 'Course, was younger when did stuff meself, but in most places there's absolutely no problems getting day labor...

If it's really as deep as 4-ft, there's some pain indeed, most residential lines anywhere I've ever seen aren't close to that deep, however.

[Paintedcow]

Rental places have machines for excavation. You can rent them by the hour or a full day. That beats hand digging and will still save a lot compared to having a plumber do it.

[Charles Bishop]

The pipe is about 3 feet deep at the house end, and 6' deep at the street end. In addition there is a slope with an abrupt "curve" down near the street end, which makes me think the pipe is more than 6' deep at the top of the curve down.

Of course, I'd rather do the work myself, with laborers than pay plumbers' rates to do the digging.

See another post for a full description of the work.

[Charles Bishop]

It's a 3" pipe, probably 4' down on average, and you need to get the pipe out, even if in pieces, and new pipe down (ABS).

How wide would you make the trench, and is there a machine you know of that would do this work that can be rented?

Oh, there may be sprinkler pipe in the path of the trench.

[Charles Bishop]

I mentioned something like this and was reminded that the salt solution is on the bottom of the pipe and unlikely to kill roots coming in near the top.

Any comments?

[Charles Bishop]

Do the pipes have to be replaced because you used root killer, or because they are old and damaged?

Or, why will the pipes need to be replaced?

[Charles Bishop]

Ok, more info. The $17 K is for 3 parts of the project

1. Replace cast iron drains under the house

1. I misspoke above. The plumber doesn't want to replace the 50 foot section. He wants to use a flexible pipe pulled into the Orangeburg pipe

- this pipe gets destroyed in the process.

1. There is also the pipe under the street, about 27' to the Main Sewer line - In this city this is the responsibility of the homeowner

In #3 the liner is a solution to avoid digging up the street.

I'm sure the prices are, if not reasonable, they are within a range of reasonable prices for the work done. It's the affordability for my friend and that's why I'm trying to get information to help her.

If the pipe to the street is lined (there are also roots there) then perhaps the rest of work can be postponed until more money is available. That's why I was wondering how long the Orangeburg might last. If it gives her another 5-10 years before it needs to be replaced, then that's to the good.

Of course it's possible that the street work could wait that long as well, especially if adding rock salt every so often could take care of root intrusion, especially from the top so the pipe isn't damaged.

One more thing. When she mentioned financial concerns, the salesman mentioned that they had a program that would give her 18 months to pay it off, interest free. After 18 months though there would be heavy penalties. Of course the plumbing company sells the debt to a finance agency. I'm unsure why a finance agency would take a debt that wouldn't pay anything to them unless 1) the plumbing company pays them something, or 2) they make money when people don't pay off the loan on time.

Any thoughts?

[Charles Bishop]

See another post for more details, but it could be trenched but at some labor.

See another post - $17 is for 3 parts of the work, the 50' section of Orangeburg is roughly $11? (I don't have all the details)

That was my thinking -she can snake it this time and then this part could be done in the future, if this part fails (again?) and nothing is lost if she waits. Someone also mentioned salt in the drains will help retard root growth.

The plumber sort of said that snaking would destroy the pipe, and this shortly after they had snaked the pipe to try to break up the clog. I'm thinking that along with the technical information she's getting Salesmanship.

[Charles Bishop]

I've posted more information in other posts. It's not a case of different estimates (well, it is) but what work needs to be done - there are 3 different areas associated with the work.

[Charles Bishop]

That was my thinking as well, and why I asked here.

See details in other posts for cost details.

I was thinking that liner should be more costly than replacement, because of the plumbers' cost, while I can hire laborers.

No septic tanks. Someone said the chemicals will only kill the roots at the bottom of the pipe, not the ones near the top. Is this the case?

[Charles Bishop]

More info in another post on the cost, but that price is about what I thought. The (E) pipe is deep though, roughly 4' on average (3'-6') over the 50 feet. So, a long, skinny, deep trench - lotsa work?