The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're building our house. They say it will be SIX WEEKS before they can tell us what it's going to cost to bring it in to our property.
On the other hand, we could just go with LP gas.
My feeling is that I'd rather have natural gas even if it costs a bit to get it initially. LP gas also has an initial cost for tank, etc., doesn't it?
Any ideas on what it's going to cost them to bring the natural gas lines in to our property? Educated guesses?
And opinions on which we should go with, natural or LP?
You can go with LP now and convert the unit to natural later, most boilers and furnaces are easily converted. Just verify that it is possible when you purchase the heating equipment. Greg
If you choose LP don't run copper lines because if you ever decide to run NG, you will have to replace all the lines. NG and copper don't like each other. Remember also that you can't just switch lines and go, all orifices on each device much be changed or you could have a fire. I use LP and I lease the tank from the company for a one time fee of $50 and they come out whenever they feel like it and fill it up then send me a bill. I'd like to switch over to NG just to get the big ugly tank out of my yard but I have all copper pipes so I'd have to run all new piping then change orifices on furnace, dryer and fireplaces. It's not a fun project just to remove an eyesore. I like the independence also, if the line is cut or shut off for some reason in the neighborhood, I still have heat.
max> The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're
In the past couple of years most areas are allowing copper to be used in NG situations. *I* wont do it, since its prob going to be one of those things that over time, we find out wasnt a good idea, and yes, I know why you dont use copper with NG in areas with the "dirty" gas. Its in the IGC book.
However, the one thing that no one has spoke of, is the gas diametric that will have to be drawn up for the home, the difference in BTUs between the two gases, and how if they go copper with LG, it will be too small to use with NG.
The OP should for all intents, go with NG since its fairly close, the gas lines can be ran one time and correctly, AND they get more BTUs for their dollar. SURE, you can convert a furnace to LPG, but you do know that the total BTU rating goes DOWN. They have to burn more to get the same they get with NG.
With NG, its actually got more flexibility than LPG, and you dont have to worry about tank location, tank filling, tank accessability, etc. Im in the biz, and *IF* I HAD to chose one or the other, and thankfully I dont (all electric and glad of it) it would be natural gas hands down.
Crap shoot. It can be as little as $500, as hight as $5000+. Depends on the particular utility and how they view the market at the time. Are there other houses doing up downstream from you? They may want to tap into that customer base and do it cheap. Is it only you? They may not think of one house as a good enough investment to bother cutting any deals.
You can also convert later if need be. Sure would be nice to know before you get started so you can make provisions to bring the line in early on.
Right. NG will be cheaper every month, tends to be a little less volatile in price. If you go iwth NG, run a line to the patio for a gas grill.
NG if you can. A superior product.
I hope your are taking full advantage of building a very energy efficient house and save a bundle in heating and AC costs for years to come. If I was building, I'd use ICF's like
Around here you sign with a LP company and they supply the tank but you have to buy from them at their unregulated price. Also they can lie about the price. So get it in writing.
Some apliances are made easy to convert for Ng-propane with kits, some are not and will need alot more work and cost. Check everything out if you want that future option in your apliances. Hiring someone for a future conversion could be expensive. I looked at an American Standard furnace that offered a simple conversion kit , burner jets and gas valve components and other brands that made no mention of it as I was looking at dual emergency fuel. Propane is usualy more costly to use but this depends on your area. In some areas of the US electricity is cheapest, but only a few. For most Ng is best you need to run numbers on Btu costs of all fuels of your area.
Gas prices are going up daily and who knows where it will end? Your new home should be plumbed for NG, but with emergency heat coming from both electricity and LP. Surely you can do a minimal installation of a single line running to your main living area for LP. How much could that cost?
I'd expect a hook-up to cost about $6,000 to $8,000 if they have to cut into their main line.
I agree on the copper v/s steel lines. If you go with the LP. and consider getting NG in the future, install steel pipes (black pipe). The LP company will install copper lines from their tank, but in the house use all steel.
Another thing, If you go with LP, and consider switching in the future, get yourself an electric water heater. I had a property that used LP. The water heater had a fault that caused it to flare up, and nearly started a fire. The whole control was charred and destroyed. I went to get a new one and was shocked by the price. A NG water heater price started at $130. A LP water heater price started at $390. (This is just the heater, not installation). Why in the hell a LP heater costs so much more, I do not understand. They are basically the same thing, with only a different orfice. However, it is against the law to change an orfice in a water heater, and they can not even be purchased.
I said the hell with that, and switched over to an electric water heater, which ended up costing me about $150 for the heater and another $100 for electrical parts and piping. That included moving the heater away from the chimney and to a more convenient location. (I did the installation myself).
Electric water heating is more costly per BTU, but considering the huge price difference in heaters, I don't think I'd ever make up the difference. Plus, I was told that LP water heaters are prone to these "flare ups". So, the peace of mind alone is worth switching to electric, not to mention an electric heater can be place anywhere in the house and does not require a chimney or vent.
I have since moved to another house where there in no NG available. I didn't even consider an LP water heater, and went right to electric.
When we had LP a few years ago, we paid a deposit on a tank, but it remained the property of the propane company.
NG is a lot more convenient (probably cheaper, too -- plus you don't have to schedule refills), but I'd go LP until you can get a quote on running the line. If the quote is too high, you still have your LP tank.
Do you actually believe all that hype? A Btu is a Btu. What makes oil any warmer? Yes, it is cleaner than years ago, but I still have to have my burner cleaned every 1000 gallons or so. If I could, I'd switch to NG today yet. Ed
=============== Very True... I bought my own 400 pound (100 gallon ) tank just last week... My home is a total electric home so I use electric heat...BUT when I wanted to heat my woodshop I went with a NG Furnace which I converted to Propane...
Paid 1.79 a gallon in Novenber for a gallon of Propane...1.92 in January and got hit 2.68 a gallon in early March...
after I got the bill in March I started calling LP dealers in the area...proce per gallon has gone up...but the range was from 2.10 to
2.30 ...a good 10 percent less then what I had paid from the supplier WHO OWNED the tank...
Next year IF I DO NOT CONVERT to Electric heat I will at least be able to shop around for the best price or lock into a seasonal rate that is for the entire heating season...
BTW electric works out cheaper if Propane sells for 2.00 a gallon... based on the number of gallons of Propane I needed in the shop this year..based on BTU's per gallon vs cost of Electricity (BTU's/Kwh).. not even factoring in the effeciency of electric vs propane...
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