It varies from brand to brand. Try a number of different ones. They are getting better and cheaper now.
I have not measured the power factor on them, have you? I believe that most all residential power meters are just "real" power, not apparent power.
As others have mentioned, only if you have pure electric heat. Fossil fuel heat is typically about half the cost of electricity (YMMV), so you still have savings (but less) during heating season.
Again, it varies from brand to brand and it has gotten better.
While I get failure rates in excess of the advertised rates, I often use CFLs in fixtures with a greater light output than the max size incandescent that I can safely put in that fixture, and still get acceptable lifetimes.
Yes, the light output is spec'd for a CFL that is brand new, warmed up, and with base down. Hardly typical. And then it is compared to the least efficient version of an incandescent bulb that they could find. Look past the BS marketing.
Despite their many flaws, I find CFLs useful in many places, but still use incandescents in many other places.
Heh. Technically, I guess OP is right. Energy=Energy. No energy IS saved by the CFLs.
Of course, you are right that the COST of the energy is quite different. Heating my house with CFLs instead of NG would be....frightening.
I don't know what CFLs the OP is referring to; certainly the older CFLs and the ones showing up in the "$1 Store" show the drawbacks he mentions. The new ones do not.
The CFLs I have (mostly from Home Despot, "Commercial Electric", IIRC):
-come on at almost full brightness, even at 60F
-have an agreeable color tone
-have lasted up to 5 years (I have not had one burn out, although I destroyed one dropping it in a sink full of water, another by physically breaking it, and one by washing it).
-show no ill effects from being turned on and off many times per day and only being on short periods
I am very pleased with the newer CFLs. The older ones that don't work so well, I've put in the closets.
My experience has been exactly the opposite and very disappointing. I recently bought a 4 pack of FEIT reflector indoor flood type ones at Costco. First problem, despite looking very similar, they will not fit in my existing ceiling cans. And no, it's not that they are the wrong R type. It's that the area near the neck is too wide so it hits the retaining clips in the can and won't screw in.
OK, so I go buy a couple of screw-in extenders, that cost $3 each and the bulbs finally go in. Next problem, they take and extremely long time to warm up. Longer than any other CFL I have ever seen. I have them in the kitchen and you can imagine what that's like when you come in at night and want to just get something quick, then leave. I'd say it takes over a min to get anything close to acceptable and probably 3 mins before they reach full output. So, the obvious tendency is to just leave them on if you think you'll be back in an hour. There goes the energy savings.
And one of the first 2 lasted only 2 months. I thought this could be just a fluke. Replaced it and that one lasted less about a month. I'm on the last of the 4 now.
IMO, this whole CFL greatness thing is way over hyped. And it's going to lead to a lot of people trying them, realising they are not all they are cracked up to be, and then giving up on them. For starters, it would be much better if there were specs on the package that stated how long it takes them to get to say 70% of full brightness. Then, you could make a correct choice for the application. I can live with that in some apps, like a security light, but not in others, like my bathroom. Then there are the other dirty little secrets. Read the packages and many of the spiral bulb type ones say they can only be used base down. Meaning you're not supposed to use them upside down in a garage or closet. Irronically, I have some of those, that you're not supposed to install that way in the garage, and they have performed much better. Still slower to start up, but not as bad as the FEIT ones and only one has failed after a year or so.
IMO, we'd be much better off if they figured out what the essential problems are here. Why does it take these much longer than other flourescent lights to achieve reasonable brightness? My guess is the size limits for the transformer/electronics may have something to do with it? If that's the case, maybe we should be focusing on developing new lights from the ground up, for new construction and remodeling. If there were a good flourescent recessed light option avaliable, when I remodel, I would put it in. Based on what I've seen so far, CFL just doesn't cut it for many of my applications.
I jinxed myself. Yes, I had a CFL burn out on me today. It's the overhead light in the pantry, the room off my kitchen where the sink is. When I removed it, the date was 11-2001. So it has lasted almost six years in a high duty-cycle environment. Every time you need water/wash hands/get pots/dump dirty item/toss trash, this light gets turned on and then off. The only time it really is on for any time is when I wash dishes.
I read some time ago that Wal-Mart was going to start pushing the CFLs and have a recycling program for the dead ones. Anybody have an update on this?
Residential electric meters do indeed read only "real" power. Power factor is not an issue there.
Most of the time, I find a brand-new CFL at optimum temperature to match the output of incandescents near the high end of light output for the claimed "equivalent wattage".
Exceptions:
23 watt ones (mostly claim 100 watt equivalence, while I find them more like "90 watt" equivalence)
In my experience, many Lights of America and Maxlite models were dimmer than others of same claimed light output
Some daylight models in my experience fall a little short
Dollar store junkers - BIGTIME!!! - along with other issues that make them outright stool specimens!
CFLs with outer bulbs, in my experience, tend to start dimmer and take longer to warm up than ones without. Also, ceiling cans are heat hellholes and many CFLs will overheat there.
I would recommend Philips SLS non-dimmable up to 23 watts with the available clip-on R40 reflector (if R40 fits). If R40 does not fit, there is an R30 clip-on reflector, but light output is compromised somewhat.
The more compact tubing heats up more. Mercury vapor works best at producing the fluorescence-causing UV over a limited temperature range. They design the CFL to work best at the temperature it will normally on average settle at. When this temperature is higher, there is a greater need for warmup.
Philips non-dimmable up to 23 watts is outright rated for this.
It is now common for office buildings to have recessed ceiling fixtures with CFLs, but they usually use something different. The fixtures are special ones made for ballastless CFLs, are designed optically and usually thermally for these CFLs, have ballasts, and take ballastless CFLs such as industry standard 13 watt twintube or 26 watt doubletwintube.
I am going to mostly agree, but with exceptions. I bought some of the original CFLs about 6 years ago. They were two straight tubes that formed a "U shape". Of the 3 that I bought, one was in a bedroom light and lasted 3 to 4 years and were placed horizontal. Two were in a kitchen fixture where they sit base at a 45deg angle upward. That fixture is on almost 24/7. Once and awhile I shut it off during the day, but it's always on all night as a security light. One died last year after about 5 years, the other is still working fine. These bulbs come on almost instantly. good color, etc. I was and still am well pleased with them. Their only drawbacks are they are long (about
8 inches). They either dont fit in most fixtures or look kind of stupid hanging out the end of an open fixture. Their other drawback, they are no longer sold.
Then they came out with these spiral CFLs. In my opinion, they are JUNK - JUNK - JUNK...... I have tried several brands. All are slow to light (some worse than others). My biggest complaint is that they are short lived, and I have had some literally go up in smoke. I cant complain about the color or light output (if I get the larger wattage ones), but the full output takes quite awhile. I cant think of one of them that has lasted any longer than a common indecesant bulb. Some do not fit in fixtures, but git better than those I mentioned above. In a cold garage or shed, they are useless in winter. I just replace them in winter with standard bulbs out there.
I am one person who was really sold on them, but am slowly getting rid of most of them now. In my "always on" security light, I hope to be able to find something that lasts, when my last "old" one burns out, or I will just replace the fixture with a florescent tube. In outdoor buildings and fixtures, most are gone now. In my bathroom, they are gone (I want instant full brightness). In extremely flammable situations, they are also gone after having several of them spark and smoke.
At one time I had nearly every fixture in the house and out buildings with them. The porch light and a few other places were the only standard bulbs. I probably had 90% of all fixtures with CFLs. Now, I probably only have 30% of them, and as they die, I just replace them with standard bulbs. I am very disappointed with the newest ones.
Are you talking about the 13 watt twintube? F13TT? PL-13? That plugs into a ballast-adapter? If so, those are still sold. They are available at home centers, electrical/lighting supply shops, and some (but not all) hardware stores.
Or are you talking about quadtube and 6-tube screw base models? Those should still be available at electrical/lighting supply shops and online lightbulb outfits such as bulbs.com.
For better life expectancy, I would:
Get ones that have the "Energy Star" logo
Preferably get ones of "Big 3" brands (GE, Philips, Sylvania). Target has GE ones and Lowes has Sylvania ones. NOTE - The "usual color" of Sylvania is not 2700K but a pinkish shade of 3000 K - it could look on the harsh side.
Be wary of Lights of America. I had a lot of early failures and saw many die young in locations that I frequented in my delivery job. DISCLAIMER - I have only bought one LOA since 2001.
Do not get dollar store junkers.
Be wary of the few remaining older stock 25 watt spirals - there was a bad production run of those.
Not use spirals over 19 watts or so in small enclosed fixtures or downlights.
There are special outdoor CFLs with outer bulbs. However, they have a severe warmup requirement, even more so than bare spirals.
So far, I have only experienced spectacular burnouts of dollar store junkers and one Lights of America unit. If the CFL is an integral ballast one (as in the usual screw base ones, as opposed to PL types and the like), they are normally UL listed. Avoid screw base CFLs that are not UL listed. Most dollar store junkers are not.
Porch lights are actually a good place for CFLs since they normally have long on-time per start. But use outdoor ones such as Philips SL/O.
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