# Measuring load on a circuit breaker.

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:34:41 -0600, Chris Friesen

Basically what I said.
Considering that there's a "source" of the power and a "load" where it's dissipated. it would be hard not to see a direction in there.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
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Mark Lloyd wrote:

Technically you don't have a "power source" in an electrical circuit. You either have a voltage source or a current source or a combination of the two.
Power doesn't flow in a circuit--only current does. Power is dissipated by the various components in a circuit. The instantaneous power dissipated by any particular component can be given by I^2*R, where I is the instantaneous current flowing through the component and R is the resistance of the component. (This is all assuming a purely resistive load.)
The electrical utility applies an alternating voltage to the conductors attached to the house. This causes an alternating current to flow in those conductors, with the amount of current depending on the resistance of the various circuits in the house.
Thus, whether you say the hot wire "goes to", or is "connected to", or "comes from" the breaker, it is all equivalent.
Chris
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On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:14 -0600, Chris Friesen

Right. Still a source.

No matter what, there is still a logical direction. Note that this direction does seem to correspond to what direction the bill comes in.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
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On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:14 -0600, Chris Friesen

I am slow. There is no power source in an electrical circuit? Why do they call it the power company? Ours is called Georgia Power.
Isn't a combination of voltage and current "power" by definition?
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Terry wrote:

Hmmm, They don't send power to you. They send electrons to you which will produce power, LOL!
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I know they only send electrons, and they get them back. Why am I being charged for them?
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Why are you being charged for water, when they get most of that back (city sewer)?
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Now I understand things better. The power company sends clean electrons thru the hot wire, they are used and get dirty in the house, and they go back to the power company thru the neutral to be cleaned up and sent back out again on the hot wire. I always wondered what that neutral wire was good for! 8>)
Don Young
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wrote:

And why have 2 hot wires, when those electrons could fit in one?
I checked that out. The other hot is just a signal wire for the [censored] evil mind reading and writing interfaces. The ones that make sure you vote for the "right" candidate.
You didn't actually read that, for it has never been written.
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Cause they are pushy (double meaning).
E = IR; Electrons = In, Returned.
--

Christopher A. Young
You can\'t shout down a troll.
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[snip]
The electrons are going back and forth (AC) and never get anywhere. What's being sent is the kinetic energy carried by electrons.
Interestingly, power companies claim that electricity moves at the speed of light. This is impossible for electrons (nonzero mass).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
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1. Wires are twisted to cancel out differential mode noise. Not all multiconductor phone cables are twisted pair. Always buy the ones that are labelled for multi-line, they are twisted. It really sucks to run a bunch of cable all around carrying 2 lines in it and find out you can hear the person on the other phone. Happened to me years ago.
2. Ground fault breakers have neutral connected to them and then neutral for circuit connects to the breaker along with the black wire on the hot terminal. Reason is that the ground fault breaker needs to monitor the hot to neutral voltage of the circuit and the most accurate way to do that is by monitoring the individual neutral wire for the circuit.
3. Power = Volts x amps (already stated). Other forms of the equation for inductive or capacitive loads and 3 phase.
4. Yes, all electrical wires have some amount, however small, of inductive and capacitive component. For electrical power, the inductance is only an issue with frequencies greater then 60 hz. I remember the days of wiring 400hz motor generators for computer systems. The wires had to be derated for the 400 hz and you had to run them in aluminum conduit because the inductive reactance of the 400 hz in a steel conduit would cause the conductors to heat up. Steel is a good shielding material and it keeps the fields within the conduit much better then aluminum, therefore the fields heating up the wire.
So, a great thread in some ways. Wow, all this theory and we still haven't figured out what the author's issue is.
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No, it's because the GFI breaker wants to monitor the *current* in the white and black wires. It passes both of them through a small current transformer. If the output of the current transformer is nearly zero, then all the current flowing in the black wire is balanced by the current flowing (in the other direction) in the white wire, none of it is leaking somewhere else, and all is well. But if there's output from the current transformer, the black and white wire currents aren't equal, some of the current is thus finding another path to neutral or ground (or another hot wire, for that matter) and the GFI trips.
It can't work at all without monitoring white wire current, so the white wire has to pass through the breaker.
Dave
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wrote:

The original question was answered. The answer was no. They don't make such an instrument.
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It's an ENERGY source. That has no effect on the validity of the concept of "source", and the direction (as mentioned with a circuit breaker).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
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Ours is called Kansas City Power and Light. Which am I receiving?
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Steve Barker

"Terry" < snipped-for-privacy@charter.net> wrote in message
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On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:16:26 -0600, "Steve Barker"
The bill. All that paper and ink cost something :-)
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I hear ya. and we don't even use that anymore. Pay online and no bill is sent. LOL
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Steve Barker

"Harry" < snipped-for-privacy@mail.stupid.invalid> wrote in message
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Mark Lloyd wrote:

Hi, This is quite improper statement. From basic Ohm's law, current/voltage produces power measured in Watts usually which can be converted into Joule, Calorie, Horse Power, etc. Current flows, power does not. There is phantom power(false power, wasted power) in inductive cicuit. Many loads are not pure resistive. There is always inductive/capacitive component.
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wrote:

Really? Always? What's the inductive or capacitative component in a light bulb?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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