Marketing Ideas

[G Henslee]

Sacramento Dave screamed in anguish:

You need to avoid amphetamines.

[Sacramento Dave]

Has anyone ever tried to market an idea or invention? There a cabinet shop and the guy has designed a custom router bit for making continues molding and stackable. The idea is you can run the same molding as a base and then go right around a door (with a 45) and continue threw the whole house. You could do this with any base and sound's like it would like crap. I really did not understand the stackable part. Here is the bad part, he got some patent lawyer to do a patent, of course this has cost $$$$$$$$$ he has even sold his car and living in his shop. The big hook is, there is a Co. interested in it for 1mill and royalties, but first we need patents in Europe. This poor guy should be warring a T-Shirt that say's "I should of said no". But what would be a better way to try and Market or sell an Idea? Or do you just hope you don't get racket over the coals? I know allot of people have Invention or an Idea, I have so many good ideas I get overloaded and end up back at work, thinking of more ways to get out of work.

[Steve Richardson]

The problem with patents is that they cost an absolute fortune to get via the usual channels (as your friend seems to have found out) and they offer virtually no protection in the real world unless you have the money to go after all the people who WILL use the idea without paying for licenses. The way things are now, Acme Company will infringe on your patent and you'll call your $250/hr lawyer to prepare the paperwork for an injunction. By the time it's served, Acme has disappeared and the same people are calling themselves Worldwide Widget Corporation so your lawyer gets another call, and this goes on until you run out of money. Meanwhile your competitors are raking it in -- it's a lot cheaper to dissolve a company and file papers to start another one than it is to prosecute under the patent laws. Or maybe your competitors are honest. All they have to do is modify some part of your invention's "claims" section and they have a whole new thing in the eyes of the USPTO. From what I can tell (I have a couple of patents myself) patents are more trouble than they're worth, and any company big enough to be interested in licensing an individual's personal patent will generally have enough technically-savvy people to "improve" on the patent and get around it without paying any money to the original inventor at all.

[mr_reznat]

"Patents do not cost a small fortune. Actually, they are very cheap to get. It's the preparations and the forms that people get taken for."

In the United States to apply for a patent and pursue it all the way to a granted U.S. patent cost a minimum of about $2000 in patent office fees for an individual or small company. If there are appeals and other difficulties it may cost significantly more. Any legal fees are additional.

Typical legal fees for writing and prosecuting a patent application (U.S. only) are generally in the range of $5000 - $10,000.

I don't know if $2000 and $5000-$10,000 are "cheap" or a "small fortune". That's for the inventor to decide.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 08/11/05 07:55 pm Steve Richardson tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

An uncle of mine (in UK) has a bunch of patents for mechanical devices. I don't know how much it cost him to register them, but I don't think he's ever made a penny out of them.

Perce

[Pop]

Unless he's already rolling in dough, I'd say a million plus royalties is a hell of a start. If he's actually been offered that, he should go with it. He will no longer have the intellectual rights to it if he sells it for a million plus royatleis and NONE of the infringement etc. will be his problem: The company owning the intellectual rights to it will be the ones concerned with most of the things brought up here. If they're willing to pay a million for it, they'll also gladly help get it patented in Europe or wherever the markets/mfg areas may be determined to be. Unless he's a flash in the pan, this will be only the beginning for him. IFF this story has any factual basis to it, that is. Infringements or not, there WILL be royalties, and each nickel adds to the future plans to go after the infringers; you do not do that immediately.

Patents do not cost a small fortune. Actually, they are very cheap to get. It's the preparations and the forms that people get taken for. O'seas does cost more because you need technical writes and language translatiors, but that's why companies have legal depts wherever they are located. It's easy to submit for a patent, do the patent search (which is no guarantee BTW that you aren't infringing) in NA and not a lot harder in Europe (EU) once you know what to do, what the correct syntax is, and find a good technical translator. That guy needs to chat with the SBA and a few other reliable sources to get some experience and decent advice under his belt. A lawyer is NOT the place to start! You also are not the person he needs for advice, judging by your lack of understanding and several other things about your post.

Regards,

Pop

Using an idea and making profit from it are two different things. Does this thing need tooling, inventory, etc. etc. or what? That's rhetorical but point is, it's not as simple as you would like it to be. The : way things are now, Acme Company will infringe on your patent and you'll : call your $250/hr lawyer to prepare the paperwork for an injunction.

That's not the first task; lots of upfront work to do first. Injunctions may never be used, and often are ineffective anyway.

By the : time it's served, Acme has disappeared and the same people are calling : themselves Worldwide Widget Corporation so your lawyer gets another call, : and this goes on until you run out of money.

Which is why he needs more advice than can be found on a newsgroup!

Meanwhile your competitors are : raking it in --

Not verly likely.

it's a lot cheaper to dissolve a company and file papers to : start another one than it is to prosecute under the patent laws. Or maybe : your competitors are honest. All they have to do is modify some part of : your invention's "claims" section and they have a whole new thing in the : eyes of the USPTO. From what I can tell (I have a couple of patents myself) : patents are more trouble than they're worth, and any company big enough to : be interested in licensing an individual's personal patent will generally : have enough technically-savvy people to "improve" on the patent and get : around it without paying any money to the original inventor at all.

Your experience in the patent arena sounds very suspect and a company patenting something you worked on is has no similarity to a single person patenting anything.

It's also not true that you can change the size of a bolt and patent it as a different machine and claim it as your own. Patent definitions and descriptions and disclosures are much more complex than that. You're either the victim of, or the source of, some large amount of misinformation and myths concerning patents and the patent office. They're onine and easy to access if you want to know more.

Pop

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Worked for a guy that had 17 patents. He made a few bucks off of one of them but invested tens of thousands of dollars to get it started. . He used to laugh because it was so simple to get around it legally, but no one ever did.

The other 16 were simply wall decorations. They either did not sell, or someone did have a similar item and it was so close, no need to pay royalties.

You have to determine it your ideal is patentable. Assuming it is, you have to determine if it is something that will sell Then you have to find someone to make it or be willing to pay you for a license and royalty setup. If you never sell a piece, the layer still gets his money for the work he did. Plenty of companies out thee willing to take your money to help you, but I don't think they are concerned about anything buy taking your $$$

It can work, but it is an expensive road.

[sleepdog]

I had an idea for patenting oral suppositories. Because I've heard the regular ones don't taste that good going down.

[Steve Richardson]

Well, as I said, I have 2 patents and 2 more in process. I've submitted on many more than that. You can check USPTO if you'd like to read the ones I have: 4,702,322 "Explosion suppression system" and an improvement on it,

5,826,664 "Active fire and explosion suppression system employing a recloseable valve". I know every step of the process that led to them, and I know they weren't cheap. I also know it CAN be done without a lawyer but only if the applicant is familiar with both the process and the unique formatting (and jargon) required by USPTO. "Sacramento Dave" asked for advice, I gave him the benefit of my own personal experience with the process, and I'll stand on that. Thanks to the others who tried to sound the same cautionary tone: Patents aren't a panacea, they take a year or more to issue (often much longer as questions arise over claims), and they're routinely bypassed even when they're not ignored altogether. Now I'm going back to lurking -- too many newsgroups, too little time!

- Steve Richardson St Louis MO

[gfretwell]

I have a good friend who has been through this several times. Whenever he tried the idea of selling his idea he was robbed and left laying in the dirt. Now he simply applies for the patent and immediately starts manufacturing the product. He markets it himself. The guy is now a millionaire. Ideas are a dime a dozen and real easy to steal. A mature product with a customer base is something a company will buy.

[nicksanspam]

As a former IPR manager and registered US patent agent, I think it's easier to get the patent and wait for others to steal the idea, then sue them for treble damages.

Nick

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Hey, you can take your idea and just stick it up your ass.

[no_child_left_unleashed]

that's in the Prior Art. It would be infringement