I'm not an expert carpenter by any means, but sometimes it seems to me that lumber one finds at home depot is to bowed and twisty for most things such as building a wall. Yesterday I went to hd to by some
2x10's to replace a few joists in kitchen floor and once again, the lumber is a little bowed a litte twisted a little chipped and a little banged. But for joists (with plywood and hardwood to go on top), does it really matter? Should I stick with HD or go to a lumber yard and pay double or triple? How about lowe's?
Have you actually called your local lumber yards and gotten a price? In my experience, the price isn't usually much higher, and the quality is better. They deal with working carpenters, and a working carpenter doesn't have time to pick through the pile looking for stuff that MAY work. Don't expect much hand-holding from the clerk, though. If it is more than a pickup load, most real lumberyards will deliver as part of the price, though.
Big-boxes are mass-market, and are open other than 6:30 am to 4 pm M-F, so that is where DIYs go. For a while, real lumberyards were trying to soften their 'trade only' image, but since the big boxes came along, most of the ones around here don't even advertise, and are back to short hours. The more marginal ones have been driven out of business. The ones that are left don't really even want to deal with civilians- they want customers who know what they want, get in and get out, and don't come back later crying that they got the wrong thing. They are supply houses, not retail stores.
What makes you think that a local yard is double or triple? Is it the marketing or have you actually checked? In my area the local yards have much better quality lumber at lower prices than big box.
And they are often cooperative on small loads if you work with them such as waiting a day or two until they are making a delivery in your area. As you said the nice part about real lumber yards is that there is no picking etc because they buy better quality wood so even if you have them deliver it sight unseen you get good stuff.
I probably end up in a big box store once a week. But when I need decent lumber I go to a lumber yard. Better quality- sometimes even lower prices- and knowledgeable salesfolks.
Sometimes my local borg has decent 4x4''s- I've found some decent lumber on occasion. But for more than a piece or two I go to the lumber yard.
A perfect 2x10, square and flat, will warp, twist, bow, wane, cup and split with changes in humidity. I have made fine furniture from HD wood. Understanding wood movement can be critical for some applications, but should be fine for a joist. Construction adhesive and good long screws will help prevent floor squeaks.
Not at my local lumberyard. They are very cooperative and will let you pick and choose but if you take it 'run of the stack' you will get bowed, cupped, waned, etc. I have seen them unband a lift of just delivered 2x4 and watched it expand by a good 10 percent. The quality may be better but if you expect perfect, flat, etc., lumber it ain't gonna happen unless you hand pick.
What you get is what's there when you happen to be by.
Despite the other stories, it's not likely there's much (if any) real difference between the comparable construction lumber at any of the yards--they're all buying graded material in bulk.
The major difference is usually that at the Borg what you see is almost always only the culls because when you get there it's already been picked over by tens if not hundreds of others ahead of you and they don't empty the bins except when they're actually empty.
Construction framers have the luxury of being able to select the pieces for where it matters to a certain extent and most also cull and simply return the truly unusable.
But, for construction, appearance isn't all that critical (once it's in the wall or floor and covered up, what's to see, anyway?) and it's "tied down" when installed. For wall studs it's nice if they're at least reasonably straight so walls aren't terribly bowed, but as others have noted, unless it is kiln dried, there's a reasonable chance it's going to warp as it dries further, anyway, even if it's straight going home.
The real problems is the trees. In order to improve the quality, we have to let them grow another 25 to 50 years for the tight growth rings. We just have to stop using wood in the meantime.
"Tight" growth rings have less to do w/ age, but to conditions -- closer-spaced growth rings means less annual growth which comes from poorer growing conditions, not better.
There's little actual difference structurally afaict from USFPA data on "new" vs "old" as far as measured properties. What's complained of generally is owing to using all the available tree and cutting construction lumber from marginally-sized trees to make better use of the material (as in less waste) than when a 30+ -incher was sawn up into tubafores and the rest simply left for waste.
I agree, my local builders supply (Raymond) was a buck a sheet cheaper on 12mm plywood and 6-7 cents a foot cheaper on SYP 2x4s ... delivered. I phoned in my order first thing in the morning and they dropped it right after lunch. You just need an order big enough to be worth their while. With lumber, it doesn't take much to be a couple hundred bucks tho.
They handle the cheapest, poorest, knottiest crap there ever was. I think they buy seconds. It's even warped and twisted. That's from cutting green wood and not stacking it properly to dry or drying too fast in a kiln. It all should be made into wood pellets.
Oh, if you go into a traditional supply house with the right attitude, and at the right time of day (like not when the doors first open, and the lot is full of beat-up pickup trucks, and the line at the counter is
3 deep), you can usually find someone who will take the time to work with you. But you can't pretend to be an expert there- they will see right through you. Big advantage of a place that caters to the trade, is that they have or can quickly get the weird stuff the Borg will never carry.
I usually go to the Borg, but that is just because I would have to take time off work to go to a real place. The real places, around here, don't have late afternoon/evening/Saturday hours. The couple of times I went looking for something the Borg didn't have, they treated me well enough. But I grew up in the business, so I hopefully didn't smell like a total clueless newbie to them.
I meant "no picking" in the sense that you don't have to so when you get a delivery you get good stuff. If you go into the yard yourself to pick up your order they don't care if you select the lumber but they buy good quality so there isn't any particular reason to do it since there will be minimal difference in quality.
From what I have seen they can specify what grade they want. If you go to the local real lumber yard in my area and watch when they open a new bundle there isn't really anything to cull out. I asked about that some time ago and their buyer happened to be up by the counter and he showed me how many grades of the same lumber he could order and that it is their policy to order better grades.
In my case, it's the hours. There's a "real plumbing store" that's open saturday mornings for a few hours, but the big plumbing wholesaler is not - so I end up relying on the Borgs for plumbing parts, for example, unless I'm able to plan ahead. The same is true for the electrical supply.
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