Inexpensive replacement for these garage flourescent lights?

The 4' twin tube fluorescent uses 64 watts and pumps out 5700 lumens of light, for $49.

The 4' LED version uses 50 watts and only puts out 4000 lumens, for $109.

That's more than twice the cost, 1700 lumens less light output, and only saves 14 watts of energy.

If you only have a few lights on a couple hours each night, it would take a long time to pay off the extra cost of the LED lights. Save your money and go with the fluorescents.

However, when you start talking about 10 fixtures running all night long, the power savings could be significant.

Of course, there may be other factors to consider. When I installed new lights in my garden shed, I opted for more expensive LED lights, primarily because they were very low profile. So there is less chance of me hitting the lights as I'm swinging a rake, shovel, or board around in the shed. I'm lucky if I turn those lights on two hours a month, and rarely at all in the winter months. So power savings wasn't a factor in that decision.

Anthony Watson

Are you sure about that wattage? My LED yard light only uses 18W. Replaced a 175W mercury vapor bulb. I dont know the lumens, but the LED is brighter. I'm sure they go on sale at times too..... Plus where are they $109? I'm sure I've seen them at Menards for much less....

One problem, apparently, is that LED bulbs deteriorate over time, so, claims of lifetime should take that deterioration into account.

Looking up lifetime claims, I found this note: "Contrary to the company?s calculations, an LED?s lamp?s lifetime is properly measured as the point at which its capacity decreases by 30 percent, according to the order. LED lamps slowly diminish in output over time, rather than failing catastrophically."

So, LEDs fail too. They just fail differently.

I wouldn't bank on that, but if it's true, that's as it should be.

But not every guarantee is as it should be.

Light Bulb Maker Takes $21M Hit In FTC False Ad Suit

?In advertising and marketing its LED Lamps with false and unsubstantiated claims, LOA misrepresented the light output and *lifetime* of its LED Lamps,? the judge held. ?Those misrepresentations are claims consumers rely upon in selecting lighting products. Because LOA?s LED Lamps did not perform as advertised, consumers were harmed because what they purchased was something different than advertised.?

I think I'm stuck with replacing the noisy bulbs. But I don't think my electric bill is the real problem because the lights aren't on all that long. Just when I'm working in the garage (or when the kids leave them on all night).

I have considered shutting off the breakers, but I just unplug the stuff that has blown in the past due to power outages, such as the motor control board on my washing machine (which had holes blown in it that showed up the first time it was used after a series of power outages during the night).

I agree though that your method of shutting everything off is better, but we get a lot of power outages (sometimes as many as a dozen a year) as I have never seen a single year without at least a one day power outage.

We just got rain, for the first time since May or April, and the trees just start to fall on the wires. They'll continue to do so until the rains stop in about April or May.

I would tend to agree with you. We don't get lightning much out here, but it sometimes happens (once every five years or so). It even makes the news when it happens, it's that infrequent.

So, for us, it's the frequent power outages, particularly the ones where the power flickers on and off repeatedly for fifteen minutes to an hour, before finally going out for a half day or two.

Lifetime actually depends on usage, though, an actual lifetime will not be 80 years. It's more a figure of speech.

If the LEDs stay on 24/7, then they may reach 5 years on a 50,000 hr. claim with that % drop as you stated. If the lamps are used less than 8 hours a day, the life will increase to an average lifetime of 17 years also including the % drop in the lamp output. Therefore, since a few are taking my "lifetime" comment literally, that was not my intent. It's simply a matter of expressing the potential life span of LEDs.

I got the specs and prices from Home Depot:

It's rated as a "64 watt equivalent", but users stated it used 50 watts.

The same light is available at Amazon for $128, and the specs say 50 watts also:

I chose that light to compare with the nearly identical fluorescent lights I used in my garage:

I'm sure you could shop around and find better prices, but you have to compare the lumen output and color temperature. Cheaper fixtures generally put out less light, or have different color temperatures (that may or may not be to your liking).

Anthony Watson

Bill,

The noise and flicker are probably caused by a failing ballast.

If the fixtures are in good condition (no metal rust and the plastic cover still in good shape), you could simply replace the bulbs and install new electronic ballasts. If your existing fixtures use the old T12 bulbs, you might see if you could convert them to T8 bulbs. You can probably find everything you need at the local home center, or shop online.

Anthony Watson

Anyone notice how we've been totally ripped off with all this lightbulb nonsense? Save the earth, my ass!

I used to buy a 4-pack of incandescent bulbs, generic brand for $1.00. Now I buy a 4-pack of halogen bulbs for approx. $6.00

Guess what? The halogen ones don't last any longer than the old ones. My electric bill is still the same so no savings there.

Thanks to all the whiny environmentalists.

This little piddly lightbulb nonsense when people are still driving their cars everywhere, constantly...just can't stay at home for even one day.

I quit! I just quit. >;-[]

I like this thread.

I didn't know anything about bulb life before this thread, other than I have never gotten anywhere near what the package says for both incandescent and fluorescent bulbs, which means I trust LED bulb claims even less.

My "guess", before doing any research, is that LED bulbs last nowhere near what they say. They probably last five or ten years, at most, is my guess, not only due to the LED deteriorating over time, but due to the electronics instantly giving up the ghost at inopportune times.

I'm not saying LEDs are less reliable than the other formats; just that none of them are reliable.

However, rather than guess, I am now going to google for what the "official" bulb life rules are, and I'll let you know what I find out.

I'll post a separate thread once I find something out.

I think we just swapped one problem for another.

The weak link in the incandescent bulbs was the energy used, and the fact the filament burned out rather quickly.

The weak link in the fluorescent curlies was that the light energy output stunk by way of comparison, and they were far more expensive than what they were replacing, and that they only lasted a little longer than the break even point.

I think the weak link in the LED bulbs is that the LED output decreases over time rather startlingly soon, and that the electronic part is prone to sudden failure, such that the life of the LED bulbs is effectively far shorter than some people are imagining.

I need to look that stuff up though, because the first two are based only on experience, while the last is mere conjecture on my part.

Halogens claim some improvements over the old bulbs: A higher luminous efficacy and color temperature.

Their physics says they should.

They use the *same* power as the old bulbs so there is no power savings to be expected.

Can't blame the environmentalists on halogens. They would likely say that halogens are just as bad as the incandescent bulb as a power waster. I imagine that they would prefer you use a bulb that takes less power such as a LED or fluorescent. But they too have environmental problems so who knows.

Sounds like one or more attempts to bring the power back on surged your appliance. Significantly by the sounds of the damage.

Here's the thing though with his method... If the incoming 'surge' is high enough, it's going to jump across the contact points seperated in the breaker in the 'off' position. It would almost be like the breaker being switched on. Same effect with small appliance switches of various kinds. There's just not that much of a gap and if the incoming current is high enough, it's going to cross it. If you want to isolate them, unplugging is the better option. It's MUCH harder for it to jump out of the outlet to your devices power prongs. [g]

This is good to know because we had a series of power outages this very weekend, which is normal for us, and I unplugged the frig and the washing machine.

I also unplugged the dryer, but I wonder, are 220VAC appliances as vulnerable? Or does the offset phase confer any protection?

What do you think, honestly, of this idea?

Costco has supposedly "universal" LED replacement tubes:

The price is currently $7.70 per tube:

So I bought 16 of these reputedly "universal" LED tubes:

At home I compared them by size to the original tubes:

Where I can't find any T2 or T4 or T8 designation at all:

All four of the 4-tube boxes hum and flicker and have bad bulbs:

Opening them up, I find only about half still working:

I can't find the ballast nor the T2,T4,T8 designation inside. All it says on the metal is "USE RAPID START LAMPS":

Where's the ballast? Will these bulbs work in these lights? What type of lights do I have anyway (T2?, T4?, T8?)

Probably in the top of the case.

Not if the ballast is bad

Measure them. The "T" = 1/8; eg, T-12 = 12/8 = 1 1/2" diameter.

you are completely right about this

its due to politicians trying to solve an engineering problem

I bought these yesterday, from Costco, on sale.

The price was $7 per tube:

All is done, except for the last most problematic lamp, which has a buzzing ballast out of the two ballasts (and the other one is only lighting one lane).

So, now, my only decision is to repair or replace the one bad fixture.