This *has* been addressed by statute. And the Supreme Court declared that
statute to be unConstitutional. Hence the proposed amendment.
No, it *is* the law:
"This Constitution ... shall be the supreme Law of the Land, and the Judges in
every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of
any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." [Article VI, clause 2]
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
And it *is* unconstitutional. My right to say what I think is predicated on
your right to do the same. If I squelch your right, who's to stop someone from
doing the same to me? I find the burning of the American flag very offensive
but I don't think jailing someone over it is the answer. Believe me, I can
think of some ways to express my displeasure that are absolutely within my
Where do you draw the line then? Should they include other aspects of life such
as the inalienable right to keep your dog from crapping in my yard? I find
One needs to be very circumspect about changing the Constitution. It needs to
remain damned near sacred.
I have never understood the near-deification of the US flag -- unless it
is that, having overthrown the legitimate (if stupid) ruler more than
200 years ago, Americans have to have something to worship, something
that they do not elect and cannot replace every four years or less as
the mood takes them.
I have seen Australian-flag beach towels and dish towels on sale in
Australia, and in UK I once saw a faded and tattered Union Jack tied on
the end of a load of lumber as a warning device. Do Australia and UK
have an official flag etiquette? Quite likely -- for the government and
military -- but I never heard what it was in either country, and it may
apply only to "official" uses. Are Australians and Brits less patriotic,
less likely to fight to defend their rights and freedoms, than
Americans? I don't think so.
On 06/22/05 10:56 pm Matt tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:
I think the OP said the same as you.
The flag is a symbol only. To uphold what it stands for you must allow its
desecration or inappropriate use. To do otherwise is to stifle the very
thing that a good many brave souls died for.
Honor the principal. Do not worship the graven image.
I'm not sure I understand some of the comparisons/examples the author
made, but overall I agree with him.
I simply cannot understand how a country can call itself 'free' when
changes like this are proposed. It's nonsensical, IMO.
Actually, to me - it's insulting. I love this country, and all it
stands for. And I'm not at all insulted when I see people burning, or
desecrating a US flag. There is no act that any person could commit
on/with/about the flag that would offend me. In my mind, when a US
citizen desecrates the flag, they are actually embracing everything it
stands for. When the people desecrating the flag don't realize this...
it's even better. The system is working when this goes on.
Now, when someone who is not a US citizen desecrates the flag... my
blood boils. But thats just me.
And I really don't need a bunch of chuckleheaded congressmen telling me
to think about what 9/11 victims would say.
Just another example of the Gov't trying to keep the peoples focus off
of important things, IMO.
And now that it's legal for my city to tear my house down whenever they
feel like it....
I just don't like the direction things are going.
And spending our money doing it. Congress may be good for nothing but
their sessions aren't run for nothing.
I hope you write your Rep. (that horse is out of the barn, but it
still feels good to give 'em a piece of one's mind), Senators, and
letter(s) to the editor of your local paper(s). I have. I think you've
got good things to say.
I would say it's hard to believe I agree with Scalia, Thomas, and
Rehnquist, except that it's not the first time :-). Talking to some of
my local and state officials yesterday and today, and with few
exceptions I can see the dollar signs in their eyes. And the eyes of
the developers. A great variety of small and large projects that have
been on hold for fear of a "takings" challenge are being revived.
Small business owners are reasonably worried.
Then there's the $1 billion shortfall for veterans health care at the
Department of Veterans Affairs. No matter what one thinks about the
military and our wars, it just isn't right to cheap out on our vets.
Me neither. Though maybe some different things and for some different
reasons than you :-).
On 06/23/05 08:26 pm Matt tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:
This wouldn't be too bad in practice (athough still bad in principle) if
the city reckoned compensation on the basis of the resultant commercial
zoning. E.g., Individual A's property is a% of the total area whose
commercial value is $X million, so s/he gets a% of $X million rather
than "fair market value" of the residence being taken.
We've all been at risk for some time; this only makes it worse. This same
court ruled that a recent law restricting political advertising is not an
abridgement of the freedom of speech or press, thus effectively repealing
about half of the 1st Amendment. The 8th Amendment's prohibition against
excessive fines has been effectively repealed by the Supreme Court as well...
not to mention the 9th and 10th Amendments in their entirety. Meanwhile,
others have had their meanings expanded *far* beyond the plain language of the
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
You took the words right out of my mouth. I totally agree with you,
except I was not in the marines. Clinton had a sexual affair and lied
about it. Bush has killed 1700 Americans and something like 100,000
Iraq people, not to mention all the other evils he has done. There
isn't even a comparison. I'd much rather hear about the Clinton soap
opera than hearing daily about more deaths.
What really gets me, is that while the country is in this senseless
war, and gas prices are getting higher and higher and jobs are in
short supply and the economy is poor (despite what Bush says), and
something like half the country has no health coverage, and the list
goes on........ Bush and congress are worrying about a few flag fires.
It's not like it happens daily, and although the flag is a symbol of
the country I love, it's still nothing more than a piece of cloth,
since the REAL flag is what it symbolizes. This is even more
worthless of their time than the gay marriage issue, which once again
is taking away our freedoms, and only affects a small minority of the
population. No, I am not gay, nor do I really endorse gays, but when
is the Bush administration going to take care of the REAL problems in
this country. Even if just one of them.
Another person posted
Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., said, "If the flag needs protection at
all, it needs protection from members of Congress who value the symbol
more than the freedoms that the flag represents."
I think this says it all.......
Sorry for adding to this off topic thread, but this one seemed to
deserve some comments. This is no longer a particism issue, it's the
true facts, and I for one am really worried about what else Bush is
going to do to destroy this country.
I know that this is off-topic, but:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:08:44 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:
This is certainly true. However, we must look at things in contest. For
example, if the US hadn't invaded Iraq, no US soldiers would have been
killed there. Secondly, if we estimate how many Iraqi people were probably
killed every day by the Saddam regime before the war started, and if we
assume that things would have stayed that way until today if the US hadn't
invaded Iraq, then ... well, I guess security for the Iraqi citizens
hasn't really improved, but the opposite has happened. Of course, it's not
the US soldiers that are killing the citizens, but it's mostly terrorist.
But these terrorists weren't there or probably not that active before the
war on Iraq started.
There will always be different opinions on the question whether it was a
good idea to attack Iraq or not. Being no citizen of the US myself, I
don't think it's right for me to judge over the Bush administration here.
However, what I'd certainly say: The democratic, peaceful and safe Iraq
that was promised before the war isn't really there yet. I hope that one
day in the near future, this will be accomplished. But those who said:
"We'll just bomb Saddam out of office and a few months later everything
will be fine" were certainly wrong.
I have to think you, and many, many others did not listen to, or
comprehend, what President Bush said in the Declaration.
He never promised it would be over in 1 hour, minus time for commercial
If you can't access the tapes you can certainly access the printed record.
This is a WAR, not a made-for-tv show.
If you find a posting or message from myself offensive,
inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don\'t know
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