I spent a long time

[Duane Bozarth]

....

Well, there were at least a few of the Founding Fathers that probably wouldn't be so sure about that--although I think the issues would be more significant.

[Duane Bozarth]

Hard to tell, but I'd say in general both traits are at least as prevalent and in many cases easily more so...although sense of the comparison is reversed in one case, you'll catch the drift, hopefully.

[Matt]

I'm not sure I understand some of the comparisons/examples the author made, but overall I agree with him.

I simply cannot understand how a country can call itself 'free' when changes like this are proposed. It's nonsensical, IMO.

Actually, to me - it's insulting. I love this country, and all it stands for. And I'm not at all insulted when I see people burning, or desecrating a US flag. There is no act that any person could commit on/with/about the flag that would offend me. In my mind, when a US citizen desecrates the flag, they are actually embracing everything it stands for. When the people desecrating the flag don't realize this... it's even better. The system is working when this goes on.

Now, when someone who is not a US citizen desecrates the flag... my blood boils. But thats just me.

And I really don't need a bunch of chuckleheaded congressmen telling me to think about what 9/11 victims would say.

Just another example of the Gov't trying to keep the peoples focus off of important things, IMO.

And now that it's legal for my city to tear my house down whenever they feel like it....

I just don't like the direction things are going.

[Curly Sue]

I'm more shocked and dismayed by the abuse of the Fifth Amendment (eminent domain) that the Supreme Court recently decided. Unbelievable.

Sue(tm) Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

[Doug Miller]

What makes you think that?

[Doug Miller]

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Never though anyone could come up with that ruling. I know we have the best Congress that money can buy, but I thought the Supreme Court was better than that. We are all at risk now.

[maradcliff]

You took the words right out of my mouth. I totally agree with you, except I was not in the marines. Clinton had a sexual affair and lied about it. Bush has killed 1700 Americans and something like 100,000 Iraq people, not to mention all the other evils he has done. There isn't even a comparison. I'd much rather hear about the Clinton soap opera than hearing daily about more deaths.

What really gets me, is that while the country is in this senseless war, and gas prices are getting higher and higher and jobs are in short supply and the economy is poor (despite what Bush says), and something like half the country has no health coverage, and the list goes on........ Bush and congress are worrying about a few flag fires. It's not like it happens daily, and although the flag is a symbol of the country I love, it's still nothing more than a piece of cloth, since the REAL flag is what it symbolizes. This is even more worthless of their time than the gay marriage issue, which once again is taking away our freedoms, and only affects a small minority of the population. No, I am not gay, nor do I really endorse gays, but when is the Bush administration going to take care of the REAL problems in this country. Even if just one of them.

Another person posted Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., said, "If the flag needs protection at all, it needs protection from members of Congress who value the symbol more than the freedoms that the flag represents."

I think this says it all.......

Sorry for adding to this off topic thread, but this one seemed to deserve some comments. This is no longer a particism issue, it's the true facts, and I for one am really worried about what else Bush is going to do to destroy this country.

Mark

[@...]

• PLONK *

[Doug Miller]

We've all been at risk for some time; this only makes it worse. This same court ruled that a recent law restricting political advertising is not an abridgement of the freedom of speech or press, thus effectively repealing about half of the 1st Amendment. The 8th Amendment's prohibition against excessive fines has been effectively repealed by the Supreme Court as well... not to mention the 9th and 10th Amendments in their entirety. Meanwhile, others have had their meanings expanded *far* beyond the plain language of the text.

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

[Doug Miller]

Wrong. The overwhelming majority of the deaths in Iraq have been the work of terrorists, not the US military.

[Luke]

And spending our money doing it. Congress may be good for nothing but their sessions aren't run for nothing.

I hope you write your Rep. (that horse is out of the barn, but it still feels good to give 'em a piece of one's mind), Senators, and letter(s) to the editor of your local paper(s). I have. I think you've got good things to say.

I would say it's hard to believe I agree with Scalia, Thomas, and Rehnquist, except that it's not the first time :-). Talking to some of my local and state officials yesterday and today, and with few exceptions I can see the dollar signs in their eyes. And the eyes of the developers. A great variety of small and large projects that have been on hold for fear of a "takings" challenge are being revived. Small business owners are reasonably worried.

Then there's the $1 billion shortfall for veterans health care at the Department of Veterans Affairs. No matter what one thinks about the military and our wars, it just isn't right to cheap out on our vets.

Me neither. Though maybe some different things and for some different reasons than you :-).

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 06/23/05 08:26 pm Matt tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

This wouldn't be too bad in practice (athough still bad in principle) if the city reckoned compensation on the basis of the resultant commercial zoning. E.g., Individual A's property is a% of the total area whose commercial value is $X million, so s/he gets a% of $X million rather than "fair market value" of the residence being taken.

Perce

[Nils Holland]

This is certainly true. However, we must look at things in contest. For example, if the US hadn't invaded Iraq, no US soldiers would have been killed there. Secondly, if we estimate how many Iraqi people were probably killed every day by the Saddam regime before the war started, and if we assume that things would have stayed that way until today if the US hadn't invaded Iraq, then ... well, I guess security for the Iraqi citizens hasn't really improved, but the opposite has happened. Of course, it's not the US soldiers that are killing the citizens, but it's mostly terrorist. But these terrorists weren't there or probably not that active before the war on Iraq started.

There will always be different opinions on the question whether it was a good idea to attack Iraq or not. Being no citizen of the US myself, I don't think it's right for me to judge over the Bush administration here. However, what I'd certainly say: The democratic, peaceful and safe Iraq that was promised before the war isn't really there yet. I hope that one day in the near future, this will be accomplished. But those who said: "We'll just bomb Saddam out of office and a few months later everything will be fine" were certainly wrong.

Greetings, Nils

[Luke]

Many years working with several state legislatures, for one. Reading newspapers, for another.

[Doug Miller]

Apparently you don't pay much attention to what goes on in DC, then. :-)

And I'm sure that some state legislatures are much better (or worse) than others.

[Duane Bozarth]

Doug Miller wrote: ...

True, just as some Congresses are better than others...but the blanket assertion that there's more "common sense" and less "political maneuvering" in State legislatures is just simply not defensible...

Actually, most representatives of both houses on both sides of the aise at both State and Federal levels have, on the whole, been "reasonable" and fairly impressive individuals , whether I've agreed w/ them or not. There are, of course, some that are simply "off-the-wall" in some sense or another, but, by and all, they're relatively few in number. It's combining them in packs and placing them in abnormal environments and poking them w/ sticks that causes much of the chaos... :)

imo, ymmv, $0.02, etc., ...

[Doug Miller]

I didn't say "political maneuvering". I said "political posturing". Not the same thing at all. And I think that *is* defensible, when you consider the posturing that goes on all the time in Washington simply because they have a big stage to do it on.

[Duane Bozarth]

Very little difference in the end, imo...altho I didn't intend to change the word, I stand by the conclusion--the level of apperent is only reflective of the relative amount of coverage one sees. Spending time in the halls of any state legislature will soon convince one of the similarity in the environments and the species... :)

[Luke]

Okay, you win this minor diversion in an off topic discussion of an off topic discussion ;-).

Well, like, uh, ya know, like ... DUH!