# Humidifier and vapor question

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• posted on January 23, 2014, 9:28 pm
On 1/23/2014 11:11 AM, TimR wrote:

I've been given some interesting ideas, about air changes. Got to follow up on the information I've been getting.
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Christopher A. Young
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• posted on January 23, 2014, 9:27 pm
On 1/23/2014 10:22 AM, David L. Martel wrote:

I think I better think it out, again.
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Christopher A. Young
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• posted on January 24, 2014, 6:03 pm
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 10:22:49 -0500, "David L. Martel"

Actually, it is.
PV=nRT
If P and T are constant (STP), V is proportional to n.
Humid air is lighter than dry air, since there are the same number (n) of molecules and H2O (18) is lighter than N2 (28).

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• posted on January 24, 2014, 9:36 pm
On Friday, January 24, 2014 1:03:19 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Yup. In an ideal gas. (you've just posted the ideal gas equation)
But water vapor isn't an ideal gas. That equation doesn't apply.
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• posted on January 25, 2014, 12:26 am
wrote:

You're wrong. Outside of phase changes, it's as close as any other. Moist air is lighter than dry air (the part you snipped) because all gasses, or mixtures, follow the ideal gas law very closely.
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• posted on January 25, 2014, 4:59 pm
On Friday, January 24, 2014 7:26:36 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Uh, yeah. That's why there's no need for those wretched steam property tables, right?
And why CO2 pellet guns work?
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• posted on January 25, 2014, 7:57 pm
wrote:

Idiot. His house if full of high-pressure steam?

In fact, yes.
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• posted on January 27, 2014, 2:54 am
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 2:57:12 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Read for comprehension. The statement was that water vapor behaves as an ideal gas. It does not.
Moist air does, at least close enough; but not water vapor.

In fact, no. CO2 is very far from being an ideal gas. That's why it is so useful.
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• posted on January 28, 2014, 12:49 am
wrote:

It certainly does. High pressure steam (which is emphatically *NOT* water vapor, rather is super-saturated) does not. Learn something!

Good grief. You really are a loser.

Bullshit.
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• posted on January 28, 2014, 5:09 pm
On Monday, January 27, 2014 7:49:19 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

so useful.

I'm sure it is impossible to explain this, or anything else, to you. But f or the benefit of others:
any gas behaves as an ideal gas if the temperature is high enough, the pres sure is low enough, AND.....important........it is a single phase system.
CO2 as commonly used is a two phase system. As it is used, liquid phase co nverts to gaseous, maintaining a reasonably stable pressure at the given te mperature. If this were not true, an air rifle could not possibly shoot ac curately, and a number of other applications would be much more difficult. The highly useful property of relatively stable pressure is caused by the phase change - phase change is not part of the ideal gas equation, because it doesn't happen in an ideal gas.
The fact of a two phase system existing, such as in a CO2 tank, or anywhere you have water in liquid and gaseous phases together, indicates that tempe rature is low enough and pressure high enough that you cannot assume ideal gas conditions. A humidifier contains liquid water. Oops.
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• posted on January 28, 2014, 10:45 pm
wrote:

No, if it's saturated it doesn't behave as an ideal gas. Otherwise, as this case, it certainly does. Idiot.

You really are a dumbass. I already stated the phase change issue.

Idiot. Do at least try to read. Then attempt a thought. It will be a new experience.
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• posted on January 28, 2014, 10:53 pm
wrote:

it is so useful.

But for the benefit of others:

the pressure is low enough, AND.....important........it is a single phase system.

phase converts to gaseous, maintaining a reasonably stable pressure at the given temperature. If this were not true, an air rifle could not possibly shoot accurately, and a number of other applications would be much more difficult. The highly useful property of relatively stable pressure is caused by the phase change - phase change is not part of the ideal gas equation, because it doesn't happen in an ideal gas.

anywhere you have water in liquid and gaseous phases together, indicates that temperature is low enough and pressure high enough that you cannot assume ideal gas conditions. A humidifier contains liquid water. Oops.

FWIW, this is an excellent audio-video demonstrating the ideal gas....

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• posted on January 29, 2014, 2:59 pm
On Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:45:18 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Yes, in a manner that indicates you don't understand it.
Your posts are quick to insult but slow to show knowledge.
I'm pretty sure you don't actually have a clue about PV=nRT. But you cou ld easily prove me wrong. Just solve the equation for V. See if Stormy go t it right. Does 2 gallons of liquid water equal 3600 gallons of water vap or?
Unless you have kids who are high school students, I strongly suspect you'l l have a little trouble converting 2 gallons to n in appropriate units and looking up R. You'll probably get T right. And you'll certainly get P wro ng, based on your earlier posts.
But after that it's just arithmetic. V = nRT/P.
Show your work, including the units.
Then do it again off the steam tables and see what the difference is. 1%? 10%?
Nah, you don't know what steam tables are. You solve the ideal gas equatio n, and I'll look up the number off the steam table.
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• posted on January 29, 2014, 7:58 pm
wrote:

Wrong, of course.

The intentionally stupid irritate me. You certainly fall into that category.

I *know* you're an idiot.

Now we know you're into the Malformed level of lying.

Work for what? I can't even read your stupid post. You're too stupid to even use line breaks and I have no interest in chasing them down for you.

Idiot.
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• posted on January 25, 2014, 4:12 am
On 1/24/2014 4:36 PM, TimR wrote:

In an ideal world, I'd just boyle some water on the stove.
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Christopher A. Young
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• posted on January 24, 2014, 12:51 am
On 1/22/2014 9:11 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Some of the water vapor may be absorbed by any fabrics you have in your home. Your carpets, rugs, bedding, clothing in closets, etc., are getting slightly damper from the humidifier.
I notice it takes a long time for my humidifier to humidify my home. That's because it first has to "humidify" my wall-to-wall carpets, which soak up humidity like a sponge. (That's why a great way to humidify a home is to just shampoo the carpet.)
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Steven L.

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• posted on January 24, 2014, 1:50 am
wrote:

Get enough ice in the walls and the wind won't blow through any more.
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• posted on January 24, 2014, 2:34 am
On 1/23/2014 8:50 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Anyone remember the old joke about not getting worms?
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Christopher A. Young
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• posted on January 24, 2014, 12:35 pm
Now that I've stapled up some cardboard, wonder if I ought to staple up some sheet plastic as vapor barrier?
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Christopher A. Young
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• posted on January 24, 2014, 2:18 pm
On Friday, January 24, 2014 7:35:23 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Nah. Just duct tape over it. You live in a trailer, right?