Humidifier and vapor question

[Stormin Mormon]

In my three bedroom trailer, I've got a floor model humidifier. I have to feed it at least two gal of water d ay, to keep the indoor air comfortable. Maybe even more than that.

From my old fire science days, I remember that water vaporizes, and increases 1800 times volume.

That means I'm putting 3600 gal a day of vapor into my trailer. Some condenses on the inside of windows, but not two gal per day worth. I wonder where the rest of that vapor goes? I don't have any windows cranked open, and I'm not holding the door open all day.

Makes me wonder what I can do, to reduce the air and heat loss?

[trader4]

I would think a lot of it is lost via air leakage. Cold, dry outside air makes it's way inside, replacing warm moist air. Where does combustion air for furnace, WH, etc come from? New furnaces typically use a vent pipe going outside, while old furnaces use the building air around the furnace. If it's condensing on the windows, the humidity is too high. The indoor humidity should be adjusted down as the outside temps drop. My furnace humidifier has an outside temp sensor to do that automatically.

[Paul Drahn]

Think about all the air vents you have. Our triple-wide mfg. home, built

1981, has quite a few vents. Kitchen hood vent, two bathroom vents, cloths dryer vent. All the sinks have vents that suck air from behind the wall when the water is drained.

Then there are all the openings when plumbing is through the floor. I am sure there are others. Just look and think.

Paul

[Stormin Mormon]

Thank you, that gave me a bunch of ideas. I do have a clothes dryer hole in the floor, wonder if it's still there. The vent over the range, has cardboard stapled over it. Though, it could use some sheet plastic in addition, I'm sure. Plumbing poke throughs, I'd not even thought of that. There is still a "stack" flue pipe for the old furnace, I've got that blocked since I put in a 90 percenter. And the 90 percenter draws combustion air from under the trailer.

Plenty to think on.

[RobertMacy]

On a calm day, no wind. Fill your trailer with helium. Walk around the outside with a helium detector. You'll be surprised at all the 'vents'.

[Stormin Mormon]

Not sure about the helium detector. But, I do have a combustible gas detector, for my HVAC work. would natural gas be better, or propane?

[RobertMacy]

Great idea! That way you can launch pieces out for everyone to examine. The 'physical' corrolary to posting.

[clare]

It's your drafty redneck bungalow - the vapour and the heat both escape the same way. The cold extremely dry air that blows in through the cracks pushes the warm moist air out the other side.

You gotta get a couple of those "quebec garages" I mentioned the other day to seal the trailer into.

[clare]

Either one, if lit, will solve your humidity problems and your frozen pipe worries - guaranteed!!

What you want is a smoke generator - then stand out side and watch where the smoke comes out. Coloured smoke would be more visible - red or yellow.

[Stormin Mormon]

Much like my hero Robin Williams, in the movie RV, chasing a couple racoons out with smoke bombs. Take that, you rascals!

[mike]

That may be the least of your problems. I'm most comfortable with a dewpoint around 45F inside. If it's colder than 45F outside, that means that somewhere inside your walls, it's 45F. And a bunch of that 2 gallons a day is condensing there. I'd worry a lot about mold. Perhaps run an exhaust fan so that the leakage is coming in. Water won't condense out of air that's warming up.

[TimR]

Get one of those infrared thermometers.

I'll bet you'll see a lot of leakage without adding gases to your environme nt.

The fact that you are adding moisture constantly proves you have a huge amo unt of infiltration (outside air coming in through gaps).

You'd be better off finding and sealing them, then you can add much less wa ter, maybe none.

When we lived in Germany, our house was so tight that with just normal wate r from breathing, cooking, and the occasional shower, the house would fill with mold if we didn't open windows twice a day. There is plenty of intern al humidity generation if you don't lose it all to a leaky house.

[Stormin Mormon]

That's a spooky thought. Might keep me up at nights. What is that stuff hanging off the walls, coming to get me?

[Stormin Mormon]

I tried walking around with IR thermometer, and check various points. I probably don't have the technique right. What I found was that the outside skin of the trailer was all the same temp, and I couldn't find much variation indoors. Some power companies offer infrared thermographs, but I've not gone that far to call em out.

[jamesgang]

You are putting two gallons a day in the air. You measure the amount of wa ter in the air as relative humidity, not gallons. If you know the total ai r volume of you trailer and it's relative humidty before you added the two gallons you could compute the new relative humidty. But it would be easier to just measure it.

[jamesgang]

amount of infiltration (outside air coming in through gaps).

s water, maybe none.

water from breathing, cooking, and the occasional shower, the house would f ill with mold if we didn't open windows twice a day. There is plenty of in ternal humidity generation if you don't lose it all to a leaky house.

In the old days you would get a roll of 35mm infrared film and shoot some p ics of the outside of your house on a cold day. I suppose there are infrar ed digital cameras these days.

[David L. Martel]

No, that's not what it means. Gas volume is very temperature dependent. This is a complete red herring. Gas volume isn's additive. If you add 10 gal. of N2,STP and 10 gal. of o2 you don't get 20 gal. of gas, STP.

Some condenses on the inside of windows,

All olf the vapor dissolves into the room air.From there it travels throughout your trailer finding places to hide. Your furniture probably absorbs a lot of the water. The air in your home does replenish from outdoors, so water goes there, as well.

If you make your house gas tight you will eventually asphysiate due to lack of Oxygen.

Dave M.

[TimR]

Possible, but I doubt it.

The furniture will come to an equilibrium with the air. Since the air is continually dry despite his humidification efforts, water will likely move from the furniture into the air.

The water he puts into the air is being driven outside almost immediately. There are too many air changes happening. Find and plug the leaks.

[Stormin Mormon]

The humidity is more comfortable with the water.

So, how does your comment begin to answer what I asked?

[Stormin Mormon]

I didn't know that about the film. Neat idea. Yes, IR cameras exist, but serious expensive. I've heard some fire departments have them for finding hot spots in walls, and victims in situations. I doubt they would loan it to me.