On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:40:57 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
That's not what I said.
there may be permits and paperwork up the wazoo - but if there is no
federal law explicitly saying you can NOT do it, and no state law
saying you can NOT do it, and no municipal law saying you can NOT do
it, and the only laws in place regulating it are (as it appears)
workplace safety laws and environmental disposal laws, then a
homeowner, not being bound by workplace safety laws, only needs to
concern himself with disposal, so far as legalities are concerned.
He cannot pay a labourer to help with the job, and he cannot do it on
a home he does not own. He WILL need disposal permits and/or need to
meet the disposal requirements.
As far as safety is concerned, he will need to keep it wet, and it
will be a very good idea to wear a good filtration mask, or even a
fresh air respirator. It will be a good idea to wear disposable
coverals to limit the transfer of asbestos dust from the worksite.
Asbestos is ONLY dangerous when airborn and if the dust is inhaled.
I worked with asbestos for years, and while many mechanics blew out
the brake dust I always used a water hose and washed the dust out of
As a child we would buy asbestos at the hardware store, mix it with
plaster of paris, and use it as a modeling/sculpturing "clay" to build
The dust IS nasty - and care must be taken, but the whole asbestos
abatement hullabaloo is a lot of government CYA. A lot of licenced
burglary has been legitimized by some very suspect science - and
several on this newsgroup have not only been taken in by it, they have
become obsessed by it.
As for various ministries having conflicting laws, that's government.
Get used to it. If you have the "opportunity" to deal with Transport
Canada and the Ontario Department of Transport you will have a very
good education as to how a government department should NOT be run as
well as a classic example of not only the left hand not knowing what
the right hand is doing, but the right thumb not knowing what the
right index finger is doing (or that it even, in fact, exists)
If you take the time and find the person/persons who actually know
something about what the laws say, what they mean, and how they are
interpreted,it IS possible to get things done - and you CAN "fight
Those who say something cannot be done should get out of the way of
those who have already done it.
On Nov 11, 3:43 pm, email@example.com wrote:
Thanks for clearing up what most of us already know. Of course that
has zero to do with the issue. I provided you with many state EPA
sites that outline the procedure for homeowners to use when removing
asbestos. Any thinking person will realize that these EPA depts are
not going to post detailed procedures for residents to follow if
federal law makes it illegal for a homeowner to remove asbestos.
Instead, they would simply post that per federal law, it's illegal and
that would be the end of the story.
And once again, if it's illegal, then just provide the link to the
federal law/regulation that states that. I've provided links that
show the DIY procedure for various states. Why can't you? Oh,
that's right, because it doesn't exist.
On Nov 11, 9:23 am, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
As usual, just more FUD. Of course the answer to that is yes. No
one here suggested that a homeowner that removes asbestos doesn't have
to follow the applicable regulations. That's why states have
websites that outline the correct procedure for DIY. But that wasn't
the issue now, was it? The issue was that some of you made the
claim that it's illegal for a homeowner to remove asbestos in their
I provided you the links to Washington, Delaware, Utah, NJ, etc, where
they outline the procedure for homeowners. Certainly these state EPA
organizations are aware of federal regulations and aren't going to
outline a procedure for their DIY residents to follow for asbestos
removal if it's illegal for homeowners under federal law to do so.
So either post the reference to the federal law/regulation to back up
your claim, or at least stop spewing nonsense. And the scary thing
is, some of you guys actually claim to be certified. I wonder what
else you know so much about that is all wrong.
As well as ANYONE who enters the confined space and becomes sick years
later. And the worst is your homeowners insurance won't cover you either.
Most liability insurance underwriters are excluding asbestos related
lawsuits unless you purchase a specific policy for asbestos abatement.
rancid, you're such a fool
Instead of paying an arm for asbestos removal you can do it safely,
you just soak it with a hose until its completely wet and keep area
wet, its of no harm wet.
Yes that's a brilliant idea!...NOT. As if playing at being an oil burner
mechanic with no tools or training isn't bad enough now you suggest that he
becomes an instant asbestos abatement technician. All that training and
PPE(personal protective equipment) is so unnecessary. Just hose it down and
put it in the trash can. All DIY'ers should get into asbestos removal! Maybe
next he could try his hand at elevator repair or helicopter maintenance.
It's not rocket surgery after all.
mr logic316 , obviously you've never spoken to a person with a real
education and vocabulary , don't bother coming back with one of your
semi-literate 'clever' comebacks , i'm done with you , regards ,
Take 12 weeks of evening oil burner service classes at your local tech
school for a few hundred dollars, buy $600 in test equipment and then
spend the next few decades *not* giving any business to the paranoid
little twits you see responding to you from alt.hvac. It's too
complicated to learn from a newsgroup post, but it certainly isn't brain
I have two CO detectors in the house, as well as a big old brick chimney
with a strong draft. This boiler and chimney were originally designed for
burning coal, so it operates on a draft system that is more than capable of
venting out excess fumes. Besides, with oil heat you're going to smell the
unburnt hydrocarbons long before the CO becomes a problem, that's why oil is
relatively much more safe than natural gas. But I guess you knew that,
"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
-- Vice President Al Gore, 9/22/97
Your logic on this one Logic again continues to amaze me.
You have two CO detectors and thats what you are banking you and your
familys life on? You need to learn what those $30-$40 CO detectors
really do and do detect.
Read here www.coexperts.com
Nope, I have nothing to do with them and I really dont care if you
read it or purchase one. Its just good info.
The fact that you think you are going to smell unburnt hydrocarbons
before any CO becomes a problem is just plain scary.
What happens at 2AM when you are in a sound sleep on a 0 degree night
and your boiler soots up? Have you actually ever seen how fast a
boiler and chimney can plug when an oil burner futzes up?? Ive seen
plenty of them and its not pretty and it happens it literally minutes.
You really need to buy a clue on what you are doing.
wrote:> Your logic on this one Logic again continues to amaze me.
If you were talking about a relatively modern boiler (which operates on
pressure rather than draft), I would understand what you mean. But
apparently you don't realize how big the passages in my boiler are. Maybe
you need to familiarize yourself with older heating equipment (circa 1945,
it really is a beauty). I already mentioned that this monster used to be a
COAL boiler, so the exhaust pipe and chimney are over a foot in diameter and
the spaces within the heat exchanger are also quite large. I've have also
been monitoring the way it runs every day, so there's no way it can just
plug up without warning. Anyhow, I figured out the problem I was having with
the flame being a bit too long and sooty. The electrodes did in fact need to
be adjusted further away, and before I simply didn't let the furnace run
long enough after changing nozzles. This time I let it run for a good half
hour afterwards (and left the air intake band open all the way), and when I
checked it after it got good and hot the flame was compact and smokeless.
It's now just a matter of getting the perfect fuel/air ratio.........
"A diplomat thinks twice before saying nothing."
You keep proving yourself logic-less. I dont care if your flue
passages are a foot in diameter. Ive worked on shit 10 times older
than that and a hell of a lot bigger. Ive worked on crap that has been
around 80 -100 yrs I believe. It had doors on it where you crawl in it
to clean it out. If it isnt burning right it plugs up.......simple as
that. Ive also done old coal fired converted to oil boilers in
residential. The old (donut cast iron boilers). It ALL plugs up if you
dont know how to set it up. Last one was a 4 gal hr nozzle some old
timer gave up on. I went out and tried to set it up to factory specs.
HaHaHa. I couldnt have been any farther from correct. I finally got
ahold of some old fart that used digital equipment. He kind of laughed
at my attempt to set up this one to specs. First he upped the pump
pressure till it almost screamed. Changed to a nozzle I hadnt seen,
set the draft, make a couple tweaks and had it running awesome.
Brought the efficiency numbers up and all. He was old and had seen a
lot of shit. It was interesting to watch an old timer that had changed
over to digital. You can buy instruments on ebay and read a book but
you still wont have a clue.
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