How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?

[trader4]

29CFR is part of the Dept of Labor, ie OSHA regulations. The Dept of Labor regulates employment safety, not what a homeowner does in their own house. Do you have an grasp of the various parts of govt and their responsibilities? Which is exactly back to what I said when I entered this thread. That you are confusing laws and regulations that govern companies, employees, etc with those that might govern an individual homeowner working on their own home.

Anything else I can help you out with? Still waiting for that simple excerpt, a paragraph, anything that cites the federal law that says a HOMEOWNER can't deal with asbestos IN THEIR OWN HOME, which is the discussion at hand. It should be easy, if it exists and you know even a tiny bit as much as you claim.

On the other hand, I can show you lots of state and municipalities on the web that talk about how homeowners can properly handle, remove, store various kinds of material containing asbestos. But even better, how about this from the Mesothelioma and Asbestos Awareness Center:

"Do-It-Yourself Asbestos Abatement Process After asbestos has been located in the home, there are two options: hire a professional abatement team, or remove the asbestos yourself. Although removing the asbestos without a specialized company often brings further complications and is costly, some homeowners feel as though it is the best option. In order to ensure the highest safety measures for you and your family, it is important to obtain samples and have it tested to make sure asbestos has indeed contaminated the area. You can then proceed with the abatement process after a diagnosis of the room has been performed. Once again, it cannot be stressed enough that asbestos, if left alone, is non-toxic. By removing undisturbed asbestos, you could be creating more of a problem (health wise and financially) if you choose to remove it.

Removing asbestos is not an easy task. By taking on this type of project and the responsibility associated with it, you are foregoing any legal help that you could have received by hiring a professional abatement company. When you do decide to take on the project, it is important to have a game plan. The first steps should include: getting proper breathing ventilation systems for yourself and others that may be working on the project, purchasing protective clothing that can be thrown away after abatement is complete and becoming aware of state and federal regulations when removing asbestos on your own.

Removal procedures first begin with permits that you must obtain from your state regulators. These documents are a guide on how to proceed with the abatement process and proper disposal after removal of the material has been complete. The application that follows with this permit is proof that you are taking full responsibility for safely removing the asbestos from your home without contaminating those inside the house or anyone else that could potentially come in contact with the loose material until it is properly disposed of. There are also fees that vary from state to state regarding the permit and application process. "

How's that dumb ass? If it's against federal law and illegal in the USA, seems they could have just said that instead of outlining the DIY process. But I suppose you know better. LOL

[Joseph]

--snip--

How's that dumb ass? If it's against federal law and illegal in the USA, seems they could have just said that instead of outlining the DIY process. But I suppose you know better. LOL

--------------

Everyone knows better than a blind retard...

Excerpt from same site:

"When attempting to perform a do-it-yourself asbestos abatement project, there are many laws and regulations that need to be followed at the state and federal level. There are many laws that can potentially be broken if the proper procedures and guidelines are not followed through the abatement process. Unfortunately, current federal regulations have made it nearly impossible for do-it-yourselfers. Harsh policies force people who wish to remove the asbestos by themselves to hire a professional to lessen legal responsibility for their actions. If not regulated properly, you may be at risk for governmental investigations, criminal charges and hefty fines."

Not that I give a crap... knock yourself out.

[trader4]

Apparently you do give a crap or you wouldn't be posting here would you? Why didn't you just continue on with the next two paragraphs of that excerpt:

"There are different instances that require specific permits and ways to remove the asbestos. Before beginning the abatement process, you must apply and receive all the necessary permits that your area requires. In the application process, you have to describe the location of the asbestos (where it is in the home), approximately how much you will be removing and specify the working conditions that you will be under. The larger the amount of asbestos the more questionable it is for agencies to approve your project. They may require that a professional company come in and help with the process because the removal may be too extensive for just a couple of workers. Permits tend to be required when the amount of asbestos reaches a 'trigger level' that exceeds normal amounts. Again, these regulations differ from state to state so be sure to do your research on the paperwork for legal purposes.

Forms can be mailed to your home after contacting the specified agency. Some documents have also been placed online in printable versions to save time. The legal documents that are necessary in any routine abatement process include the following: asbestos abatement notification form, asbestos variance request form, project manager waiver form, and a compliance checklist. Depending on the family size, the area of demolition or renovation, there could be other necessary paperwork to fill out and be approved. Some states even require a training session that shows how to remove certain types of asbestos. This, again, varies from state to state. In an effort to answer specific questions about home abatement, resources are available on the internet and directly through abatement agencies. If in doubt, or if you feel overwhelmed with the process, do not hesitate to contact a professional company to assist in abatement measures. In either case, it is important to follow the mandated policies and regulations determined by the state and federal government to avoid legal complications.

Last modified: September 22 2008. "

Now that procedure doesn't sound all that difficult or impossible. No one ever said you didn't have to follow the correct procedures, obtain permits, etc, even if you do it yourself. And again they are confirming exactly what I first posted. Which is that contrary to what was claimed by many posters here, there is no federal law making it illegal for a homeowner to work on or remove asbestos from their home and that the regulations covering it vary from state to state.

I already provided an excerpt and link from Puget Sound, WA that makes it clear a homeowner can remove. asbestos there.

Here's some more:

Utah:

Note: This publication by the Division of Air Quality is limited to the removal of spray-on ceilings in single family, owner-occupied residential dwellings by the owners themselves. State and Federal regulations require specific work practices and worker training for persons performing asbestos removal projects in all other situations.

Before You Begin Are you sure your ceiling contains asbestos? Not all spray-on, textured ceilings contain asbestos. To know for sure, submit a small sample for laboratory analysis. Cost is minimal. Laboratories are listed in the yellow pages under "Asbestos - Consulting and Testing." A list of local laboratories may also be obtained by contacting the Division of Air Quality at 536-4000. (Return to Table of Contents)

Use a spray bottle to thoroughly wet three or four small ceiling areas with water mixed with a few drops of liquid detergent. Using a putty knife, take a composite sample by carefully scraping about one square inch of spray-on from each wetted area into a zip-lock plastic bag. If the laboratory results are negative, meaning less than 1 percent asbestos was found in the sample, take two additional samples to confirm the analysis.

From Delaware:

Asbestos Removal Procedures for Home Owners

From Minnesota:

Remove it Removing the asbestos material may be the best option if the asbestos material is extensively damaged or if it will be disturbed by renovation or other activities.

Homeowners may legally remove asbestos materials themselves from the single-family home they own and occupy. However, MDH strongly recommends using a Minnesota-licensed asbestos contractor.

[bud--]

. The person I asked is certified as a supervisor for asbestos removal, is an engineer, and runs a business that has done environmental abatement and consulting in a number of areas including asbestos.

(I agree the regs are federal.) .

. I don't know if I would want to remove an old boilers. On the other hand the people who removed my boiler took no precautions and there was a lot of dust ? the people you are railing about. (I knew less about asbestos then.)

I did remove some asbestos from pipes. I doubt any was airborne or did not wind up bagged. But if I was removing asbestos for a living I would want appropriate protection. My removal took too long for a business. .

. The person I cited was not a "home repair guy". Trader has cited several government sites that agree with my source.

Maybe you could cite an "asbestos site run by the Government" that supports your opinion.

[Don Ocean]

If that is all he was.. He worked under the instructions of Government Contractors like me. The final word is those federal regs. You may have your expert contact me. I will gladly either give him directions or to have a Federal lawyer give him some expensive reeducation. The same expensive reeducation that you are striving for. End of Argument. Bullshit your pals in Home Repair, Not here! Watch your TV for Asbestoses Lawyers adds. They are putting together a massive lawsuit for a certain large company that has not followed the rules to the letter. We are talking hundreds of $billions.

and runs a business that has done environmental abatement

He will find the Accommodations in Denver Colorado's Federal court rather confining.

There is only one and you really should read it before you get to meet a massive Federal fine.. Or worse yet..Lead some poor bastard into that massive fine by your ignorant and irresponsible bullshit.

>

[trader4]

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Look, instead of oblique references, just give us the excerpt from a federal website and link that says it's illegal for a homeowner to remove asbestos from their own property. I've asked for this repeatedly, yet no one claiming i't illegal can provide it, because it doesn't exist. Quite the contrary, I've provided multiple limks from state govts and asbestos organizations that not only don't say it's illegal for a homeowner to work on asbestos themselves, they give the procedures for DIY's.

Since you appear to be in the commercial business yourself, I'd suggest that either you have a vested interest in misleading people, or you're remarkably ignorant.

[Steve]

Look, instead of oblique references, just give us the excerpt from a federal website and link that says it's illegal for a homeowner to remove asbestos from their own property. I've asked for this repeatedly, yet no one claiming i't illegal can provide it, because it doesn't exist. Quite the contrary, I've provided multiple limks from state govts and asbestos organizations that not only don't say it's illegal for a homeowner to work on asbestos themselves, they give the procedures for DIY's.

Since you appear to be in the commercial business yourself, I'd suggest that either you have a vested interest in misleading people, or you're remarkably ignorant.

----------------------------------------

When you have the training, education, certifications and experience in handling asbestos and other HAZARDOUS WASTES, then come on back. You have a lot of homework to do, I suggest that you get started. BTW... before you begin your little project, Since you don't want to believe us, I suggest that you contact your local EPA, and OSHA offices, as well as you State, County, and City and get them to give you copies of their laws and regulations that apply to *YOU*.

Until then, don't let the door hit you in the ass.

*click*

[trader4]

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In other words, just as before, you're incapable of supplying any reference to any federal law that says it's illegal for a homeowner to do asbestos work on their own home. Not surprising, either, because IT DOESN'T EXIST. That's right, despite any training, education, certification, and experience you MIGHT have, you still don't know what you're talking about. Face it, you're in way over your head here, yet you continue to come back for another whopping.

You have a

You mean like this, from Cape May County NJ:

"The "Homeowner's Guide for the Disposal of Asbestos" is issued by the CMCMUA to assist the homeowner when they are removing and disposing asbestos from their personal residence.

Under current New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection (NJDEP) and New Jersey Department of Labor Regulations (NJDOL), there is nothing that prohibits the homeowner from removing, packaging and disposing of asbestos roofing, siding and insulation from his personal residence. For further information on New Jersey asbestos regulations, you may refer to the following websites:

"

Dumb ass. There it is for you and it couldn't be any clearer. Yet, I suspect you'll be back for another whooping.

[salty]

This does not address Federal Regulations. Just because local laws may or may not allow it, that doesn't trelease you from Federal regulations.

[bud--]

The lower levels of government that deal with asbestos are certainly aware of federal regs. They are the basis of what can be done legally. Their advice would be compliant with federal regs.

Nice links.

Still missing - any cite to federal regs that say homeowners can't remove asbestos in their homes. As trader has said they should be easy to find if they exist.

[I can see why alt.hvac has a bad rep.]

[Don Ocean]

Yes we do.. it is because useless asshole like you manage to contaminate our professional group with idiotic trolling.

>

[salty]

Couldn't have said it better!

[trader4]

So, what exactly is your point? Are you saying there is a federal law that prohibits a homeowner from doing their own asbestos work or removal? That is what was claimed and being discussed. No one here ever denied there are regulations that must be followed, only that it IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR A HOMEOWNER TO DO THE WORK THEMSELVES ON THEIR OWN HOME THEY LIVE IN. And if there were a federal law making it illegal for a homeowner to remove asbestos, do you actually believe that the various state DEP authorities I've cited would put up websites telling their residents that it's legal, how to do it, and the procedures to follow? Of course if it were illegal under federal law, the state agencies would just simply state that. Did you look at the links I provided from WA, DE, UT, NJ where they outline how residents may remove and dispose of asbestos?

And despite all that, if you still claim it's illegal under federal law, then just provide us with a reference to back it up. I've asked for it repeatedly and it hasn't been provided, because it doesn't exist.

[salty]

If you have paid all your state and local taxes, do you still need to worry about Federal taxes?

[bud--]

Q.E.D.

On one side is an engineer (registered professional engineer in several states) who is a consultant and project manager in environmental areas and certified in asbestos removal who says homeowners can remove asbestos. Also explicit information from several state governments sites and other agencies provided by trader that says that says homeowners can remove asbestos.

On the other side is Don who has still not cited federal regs that say homeowners can't remove asbestos in their homes. As trader has said the regs should be easy to find if they exist.

[Noon-Air]

It *STILL* doesn't matter..... what does matter is that the person that is doing the asbestos removal has to check with *ALL* of the required state, county, and city officials reguarding asbestos removal, and comply with their regulations, monitoring, and inspection requirements. Remember that the state, and local regs are based on FEDERAL regulations.

In any case, this conversation is done.

Have a nice day

[clare]

No STATE law may transcend federal law. If federal law prohibits something, no state law can allow it. The reverse is not true. Just because federal law does not prohibit something does not mean state law cannot. One step further, municipal laws cannot transcend state laws, but can prohibit things allowed by state law UNLESS the higher jurisdiction specipically outlighns certain "rights".

In other words, if the feds say you can NOT do something, no state or municipal law can allow it. If a federal or state law enshrines something as a right, a lower level of government can NOT prohibit it.

[salty]

You really don't have the complete picture. Even in the federal government, you can meet one federal law that is administered by one department, and still not be free and clear of other regulations or laws under the purview of another department.

You may need local, state and Federal permits, or even several permits from various departments at each level, and they may all have differing requirements. Sometimes they even have CONFLICTING requirements, and you have to break one law to comply with another.

The Federal government may not prohibit a homeowner from removing asbestos, but they may put such onerous restrictions and requirements on it that it is not practical. Just because your local town or city permits you to remove asbestos and take it to the dump in a garbage bag, does not mean you have complied with all applicable state and Federal requirements and laws.

[clare]

That's not what I said. there may be permits and paperwork up the wazoo - but if there is no federal law explicitly saying you can NOT do it, and no state law saying you can NOT do it, and no municipal law saying you can NOT do it, and the only laws in place regulating it are (as it appears) workplace safety laws and environmental disposal laws, then a homeowner, not being bound by workplace safety laws, only needs to concern himself with disposal, so far as legalities are concerned.

He cannot pay a labourer to help with the job, and he cannot do it on a home he does not own. He WILL need disposal permits and/or need to meet the disposal requirements.

As far as safety is concerned, he will need to keep it wet, and it will be a very good idea to wear a good filtration mask, or even a fresh air respirator. It will be a good idea to wear disposable coverals to limit the transfer of asbestos dust from the worksite.

Asbestos is ONLY dangerous when airborn and if the dust is inhaled.

I worked with asbestos for years, and while many mechanics blew out the brake dust I always used a water hose and washed the dust out of the brakes.

As a child we would buy asbestos at the hardware store, mix it with plaster of paris, and use it as a modeling/sculpturing "clay" to build models.

The dust IS nasty - and care must be taken, but the whole asbestos abatement hullabaloo is a lot of government CYA. A lot of licenced burglary has been legitimized by some very suspect science - and several on this newsgroup have not only been taken in by it, they have become obsessed by it.

As for various ministries having conflicting laws, that's government. Get used to it. If you have the "opportunity" to deal with Transport Canada and the Ontario Department of Transport you will have a very good education as to how a government department should NOT be run as well as a classic example of not only the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, but the right thumb not knowing what the right index finger is doing (or that it even, in fact, exists)

If you take the time and find the person/persons who actually know something about what the laws say, what they mean, and how they are interpreted,it IS possible to get things done - and you CAN "fight city hall".

Those who say something cannot be done should get out of the way of those who have already done it.

[trader4]

As usual, just more FUD. Of course the answer to that is yes. No one here suggested that a homeowner that removes asbestos doesn't have to follow the applicable regulations. That's why states have websites that outline the correct procedure for DIY. But that wasn't the issue now, was it? The issue was that some of you made the claim that it's illegal for a homeowner to remove asbestos in their own home.

I provided you the links to Washington, Delaware, Utah, NJ, etc, where they outline the procedure for homeowners. Certainly these state EPA organizations are aware of federal regulations and aren't going to outline a procedure for their DIY residents to follow for asbestos removal if it's illegal for homeowners under federal law to do so.

So either post the reference to the federal law/regulation to back up your claim, or at least stop spewing nonsense. And the scary thing is, some of you guys actually claim to be certified. I wonder what else you know so much about that is all wrong.