How big are surveyor pegs

[mm]

How big are surveyor pegs?

I've made arrangement to borrow a metal detector in the hope of finding one or more surveyor pegs. I'm at the corner of the development, so the original property was surveyed and perhaps pegged at my corner, and the previous owner of my house had his own survey, which might have resulted in pegs.

So it occurs to me, if and when I find the peg, how do other people know I haven't moved it? My neighbor is suspicious enough to think I might do that.

How long is it? Regardless, surely it can be removed with hand tools. And replaced 6 inches away. Hey! How do I know he didn't do that already?

There has already been one survey here. I don't want to pay for a second.

[mm]

Thanks for your good reply.

Just an inch or two? So I need a good metal detector.

Property lines seem to bring out the extreme in some people, and some of them are crazy already. :)

[salty]

Find out who did the last survey. It will be noted on the survey. Getting a previous survey "verified" by the same surveyor can often save you a lot of money.

[Hustlin' Hank]

Pins are usually 1" metal rods that extend below the frostline so they won't be shoved up by freezing and thawing. It could be below grade by a foot or so, depending on your location.

Where I live (central Ohio), the property line begins in the middle of the road and extends towards the rear of the property. There is a 30' easement from the middle of the road. So, you may, or may not, have a pin on the front of your lot.

Unless you're putting up a fence, building, driveway and etc., there isn't really a need to know where the pin is. But if you are determined to find it, you may have difficulty finding it with a cheap metal detector. The county courthouse should have records that state who performed the last survey. It should be on your deed also. Call the people who last surveyed it and see what they would charge you to find it. It is usually at most a couple hundred dollars.

Hank

[George]

If that is the case you are wasting your time.

You bring the surveyor back and have them confirm that the pins are correct.

If the neighbor doesn't trust you what do you hope to prove by declaring "see, there's the corner pin"?

[Steve B]

I have found survey pegs with a metal detector and a dowser. I have seen two types. One is a piece of rebar with a brass top. Very easy to find with a metal detector. One is a piece of rebar with a plastic top. Easy to find, but doesn't give out the signal of brass. Set your metal detector/s discriminator to a low setting. Get you some orange soccer cones, or just rocks to make squares to search so you don't go over the same area over and over. The brass ones really put out a signal.

When these are pounded in the ground, the rod goes first. Then the cap. If one has been messed with, it is usually obvious, and if a brass one has been rehammered, the marks will show. Ditto with plastic. I've never pulled one, so don't know how long they are. The rod is usually

3/4" to 1" dia.

Let us know how it shakes out.

Steve

[Steve B]

Pins are usually 1" metal rods that extend below the frostline so they won't be shoved up by freezing and thawing. It could be below grade by a foot or so, depending on your location.

Where I live (central Ohio), the property line begins in the middle of the road and extends towards the rear of the property. There is a 30' easement from the middle of the road. So, you may, or may not, have a pin on the front of your lot.

Unless you're putting up a fence, building, driveway and etc., there isn't really a need to know where the pin is. But if you are determined to find it, you may have difficulty finding it with a cheap metal detector. The county courthouse should have records that state who performed the last survey. It should be on your deed also. Call the people who last surveyed it and see what they would charge you to find it. It is usually at most a couple hundred dollars.

Hank

Hank, I have had metal detectors since 1980. Brass is one of the easiest things to find, even with a cheapo.

Steve

[Steve B]

No, if it's brass, it will give off a good signal that even a cheapo can find. A 2' piece of rebar will also give off a good signal. Hang one of the neodymium magnets on a string, and walk over it. You may be able to find it that way, too. That method works for small meteorites, it would work for a 1 inch piece of rebar.

Steve

[Jules Richardson]

Doesn't the paperwork for your house state the size of the lot? Ours does

- and even if it didn't, I could presumably poke the county folk and give them the lot number and they could tell me. Then it's just a case of using a tape measure...

[willshak]

mm wrote the following:

It depends upon whether the surveyor put in metal markers at all. Sometimes it may just be a piece of wood lath with a red plastic strip tied around it. I've had my property surveyed at least twice since I bought the property

26 years ago. When I bought the property there only one visible marker and that was a 1" galvanized pipe imbedded in concrete on the road side of the property. It was so old that the pipe was gone, leaving just a rusty stub in the concrete.I later broke the stub off so I wouldn't get a flat on my garden tractor when mowing. I needed a new survey before I could build the house for the building inspector to check setbacks. They used the lath. A couple of years later, I needed a new survey to install an in-ground pool, also to check for setbacks. For this last survey I paid a little extra to have rebar markers set at the corners. I can still find 3 of the markers, but the 4th one is in a wooded area and fallen leaves, trees, branches, and other natural debris have covered it pretty well. I can't use a metal detector because there is an old metal fence and a piece of farming equipment buried just about where I figure the marker should be. I already tried with a neighbor's detector. It's not really important to find that one, since the woods drop down into a small heavily wooded valley, so nothing could be built there. Even if they could build, they would have to find the marker, not me.

[dpb]

Jules Richardson wrote: ...

But does one know where to start measuring from, precisely???

[George]

If you don't have a known good reference where would you place the end of the tape measure?

[salty]

I went to city hall and obtained a copy of the survey plot they had on file. I was then able to measure from the sides and corners of my house, which was on the plot print out to verify where my property line was. The plot showed the distance from corners of the structure to property lines. It was pretty simple.

I even learned that the driveway had been relocated from where it was when the survey was done.

[Frank]

This may or may not work. I had a neighbor that said his house was off in the survey when he measured to marker. Around here, survey is needed when property changes hands but surveyers may not even come out and if you want markers they charge extra as survey is just checking last survey. I've been watching my property line change back and forth with each owner. I gained about 5 feet last time which for a 300 ft property line is 1,500 sq. ft. ;)

[salty]

Maybe he was off! LOL

I had the plot for the houses on either side of my property, and measuring from their houses to the line came to the same place. I'm very confident that everyting is as it is supposed to be, and so are the neighbors.

I think we were able to close using the original 1952 survey. It was a while back, but I don't remember paying any surveyorsd for anything, and the survey at City Hall is the original one from when the house was built.

[DanG]

It is normal to drive the pin below grade. The pin is usually a piece of rebar on end, so it is a fairly small target to find. They often have a plastic cap installed on the top with the surveyor's name on it. The pin is 2' long. I suppose someone could move a survey pin, but it would seem extreme. Once you've found one, go find the next to verify the distances on the plot. It is not unusual for two surveyors to have slightly different answers.

[dpb]

...

IME, that'd be pretty unusual for the plats to be very accurate compared to as builts. Not that it's impossible, but in general the surveys don't worry about where things are _on_ the plat but only where the boundaries are. Much will depend on age of the survey and for whom it was done and specifically why, of course...

--

[salty]

All I can tell you is that in my case, everything seems to check out.

My property is further complicated because an additional piece was purchased separately and added on.

[Joe]

[Dan Lanciani]

| How big are surveyor pegs? | | I've made arrangement to borrow a metal detector in the hope of | finding one or more surveyor pegs. I'm at the corner of the | development, so the original property was surveyed and perhaps pegged | at my corner, and the previous owner of my house had his own survey, | which might have resulted in pegs. | | So it occurs to me, if and when I find the peg, how do other people | know I haven't moved it? My neighbor is suspicious enough to think I | might do that. | | How long is it? Regardless, surely it can be removed with hand tools. | And replaced 6 inches away. Hey! How do I know he didn't do that | already? | | There has already been one survey here. I don't want to pay for a | second.

There's another problem even if you find some pegs. Without a survey that references them you don't really know what they mean. For example, I have a peg that could very well be the lot corner but is actually about six inches off (funny you should mention that number). The last time I had a survey done they mentioned this but the scale of their drawing was such that the displacement was invisible. (I asked for and received a detail drawing that makes it clear.) There is another peg that you might think was on the rear lot line but is actually a few feet off. N.B. I don't think these pegs were errors nor has the line moved due to better technology; they just weren't being used for the obvious purpose.

I believe it's bad form (perhaps even illegal) to remove pegs even if they are confusing, so they tend to accumulate. I don't think a survey becomes public record unless it is recorded. If you are lucky the caps indicate which surveyor drove the pegs, but I don't know that they would tell you about the related survey if somebody else paid for it. At least if you can match the caps you might be able to figure out which pegs were driven at the same time.

Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com