How best to dilute gasoline to use in a kitchen sink?

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 16:54:38 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon

IF you could "dilute" gasoline 10 "1/10th" strength it would take 10 times as long to do the job, or only do 1/10 the job.
You are beating a VERY dead horse.
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On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:51:54 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

No. That's not correct. More appropriately that's almost certainly not correct. (but there is a very slight chance that it could be correct).
It all depends on the minimum effective dose (and on solubility of goop in gas).
As an out-of-context example, of what I am telling you: a. I can put out a lit match with a gallon of water. b. Or, I can put out that match with a quart of water. c. Or I can put out that match with a spoon of water.
If the minimum effective dose is a spoon, then the gallon of water is overkill.
Let's take the LD50 for poisons as another example: a. Let's say you can kill a rat with 1 ounce of warfarin. b. If you use a pound of warfarin, you'll kill the rat. c. But if you dilute that pound in half, you'll still kill the rat. d. In fact, you can dilute that pound 1:16 and still kill that rat.
Same with using Acetone as nail polish remover. You can dilute 100% acetone by a LOT where it still works fine.
The question we don't know the answer to is what the minimum effective concentration of the solvents in gasoline that dissolve the goop.
I'm sure 1:10 is fine, but I don't know that for sure since I don't know how to dilute the gasoline yet to test it out.
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On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 21:29:40 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon

Get it through your thick skull. IT CANNOT BE DONE.
This is the last you will here from me on this thread.
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On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 16:54:38 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon

This has got to be the most idiotic worthless thread ever posted to alt.home.repair. I've heard more inteligent conversations sitting on a barstool with a bunch of alcoholics.
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On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:25:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Thanks for thinking Jeff, and for asking thinking questions. This question was always about chemistry.
Answers: 1. I only remove about 1 label a week (or so). 2. It's not the expense; it's the pleasure of using a home remedy solution that actually works (if peanut butter really worked, that would be fine). 3. I've tried *all* the chemicals I keep at home. 4. Gasoline works more often than all the rest. 5. Acetone works second best (but not as well as gasoline). 6. Gasoline stinks up the house if used inside. 7. Plus it's too flammable to store under the kitchen sink. 8. So I'm just trying to use vastly diluted gasoline. 9. My hope is that a 1:10 gas:diluent solution will still work. 10. If it's a 1:10 solution of gas:diluent, it might not stink so bad. 11. And, a 1:10 solution might be more safely stored indoors. 12. That's the only reason I ask the scientific question.
I only remove a label about once every week or two.
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Glad you realize that. Now think about this.
Once you dilute the gasoline, it will still release fumes, carry the exact same risk, and smell just as bad.
--
Dan Espen

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On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 14:50:39 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

Maybe. Maybe not.
If I piss in your cup of water, it will stink like urine and look like urine and taste like urine (don't ask - I don't know).
Now, if I dilute that piss 10:1 or 100:1, I'd wager none of the deleterious effects will occur.
That's why they say the solution to pollution is dilution. All chemicals work that way.
Why is gasoline any different than all other chemicals?
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On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 2:29:44 PM UTC-7, Robert Bannon wrote:

Gasoline is NOT just one element...it is a mix of hydro-carbons but no matter what it shouldn't be in your kitchen sink. It can catch fire, explode and possibly burn your fricken house down and you with it. ===
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I'm sorry, that's not how chemistry works. You quoting an old saying doesn't even sound logical. Here's what Google says:
Pollution mixing zones are streams or bodies of water where polluters (industrial, municipal or individual) can legally obtain a permit to dump bio-accumulative chemicals, sewage, mining waste water at high concentrations based on the mistaken old rule that “dilution is the solution to pollution.”
In chemistry, when you mix two compounds, you either get a reaction or a mixture (no chemical reaction).
If you get a reaction, the odds are, you no longer have gasoline and it will no longer work as before,
If you don't get a reaction, the gasoline is still there, creating fumes, and it's still flammable.
--
Dan Espen

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You mentioned 1 to 10 a while back and I forgot to ask 1 of what to 10 of what?
If it's 1 of gasoline to 10 of whatever, and this works, why not use the whatever full strength? Because you're choosing the whatever based on price - it costs at least less than gasoline - why not use it?
Others have mentioned the danger and I don't think it's severe if you are using a baby food jar of it, sealed.
If you are doing once a week, do the prep work inside - soak in water, scrape most of it off, using a single edge blade for most of the gunk, and then finish outside. If the weather isn't good, store several weeks worth until it is.
--
chalres

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On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 16:54:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon

I won't thank you for questioning my answers.

Also about safety.

Use the commercial label removing goo. At that rate, a small bottle will last years.

Since I don't know what chemicals you have at home, that information is useless. However, more interesting would be the type of labels that you're dealing with. You seem to be having far too much trouble for it to be one of the more common types of labels.
I have some permanent labels that have some solvent mixed in with the glue. When attached to plastic or paint, they will literally solvent weld themselves to the plastic or paint, as well as to the plastic backing in the label. When I scrape those off with a razor, I usually find some damage to the underlying paint or plastic.

It won't work very well. Pretend you put a 1 molecule layer of solvent against a glued surface. Each solvent molecule will break one hydrogen bond on one molecule of glue. No problem here. However, you're diluting the solvent 1:10 with perhaps water, which has no effect. So, only one in 11 molecules of glue is disassociated. Of course, other solvent molecules can displace the water, but that take agitation, which is not possible with a thinly glued surface. More simply, the diluted mixture will work 1/10th as well as full strength. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvent> >10. If it's a 1:10 solution of gas:diluent, it might not stink so bad.
Gasoline is a VOC (volatile organic compound). The stench is produced by simple evaporation. Gasoline volatility is measured as the Reid (absolute) Vapor Pressure is somewhere between 8 and 10 psi. <https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/volatility-regulations-gasoline-and-alcohol-blends> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_vapor_pressure> It varies with season, type of gasoline, temperature, and whims of the Environmental Protection Agency.
When you mix gasoline with something that has a much lower vapor pressure, such as water which is 0.95 psi at 100F, the vapor pressure remains that of the most volatile component, but with a reduced evaporation rate due a reduction in surface exposure. A bucket of 10:1 gasoline water mix, will have 10 times as many water molecules as gasoline molecules exposed on the surface of the bucket. Therefore, assuming perfect mixing, a really bad assumption as gasoline floats on water, the rate of gasoline evaporation will be 1/11th the rate of a bucket full of 100% gasoline. The room in which you store the bucket of gasoline will have the same amount of smelly gasoline molecules in both cases at equilibrium, but the 10:1 mix might take about 10 times as long to smell up the room.

Use the commercial label remover and be done with the chemistry lessons.
--
Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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On 19/11/2016 11:05, Robert Bannon wrote:

Don't use gasoline. It still contains enough benzene to mess you up in the long term.
Use biodiesel. It works, and is non-toxic, and cheap. I am talking about trans-esterified cooking oil. There are a lot of websites about how to make it, from KOH, methanol and filthy frier oil, but you can also buy it, usually about the same price as regular diesel. If made (and washed) properly, there is no methanol left in it at the end of the process.
If you doubt its abilities to clean off gunk, here is one example: After a few months it stripped the paint off the inside of my jerry can (and I then had to filter all of the lumps and flakes out so I could use the fuel). It also took the greasy layer off my bathtub better than any household cleaner that I tried. I used it to remove many labels. You can then wash it off easily with ordinary detergent and hot water. It won't melt plastics in the short term (though it might soften epoxy and will swell rubber if you leave it on for weeks). It also smells nice (if you like fried food).
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