help on soldering

Hi,

I start trying to solder brass valve for one of my garden hoses. The problem is that the solder does not drawn into the joint. I follow the instruction on Black & Decker home repair book. Solder melt at the edge of the joint, then drop on the ground, and it does not suck into the joint. I tried a couple of times, no solder ever drawn into the joint and solder stays at the edge of joint, that is it. How am I going to solder it correctly for brass valve? I heated the center of the valve back and forth, nothing happened.

thx

Reply to
wenmang
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You cleaned all parts first with emery cloth?

You did use flux?

'Cause it sounds like a no flux issue.

Reply to
Jim McLaughlin

To me it sounds like it is not clean enough (flux aids in the cleaning) or it is not hot enough, in that order.

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

both the pipe AND fittings MUST be completely shiney and abslutelty clean, there are inexpensive tools to help do this

then flux both parts assemble and heat FITTINGS not solder!.....

run propane torch at FULL FLAME wide open for max heat and get fittings hot then and only then apply solder.

its attention to details but pretty simple provided you have good access...

Reply to
hallerb

More precisely, flux seals out oxygen which would otherwise react with the brass and form a non-solderable layer of oxide. With a very clean joint (both surfaces), flux, good solder, and adequate heat (use MAPP gas), heat the joint where you want the solder to run. Then apply the solder and wipe off the excess with a damp rag.

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Reply to
Stubby

Hi, Cleaned the parts to be soldered? Shiny clean. Applied flux? Heating the parts to be soldered? Then apply solder which will flow by capillary action.

Reply to
Tony Hwang

The brass valve is probably farily heavy, and the heavier a fitting is, the longer it takes to heat it up sufficiently for solder. Use Mapp gas, not propane. It is much hotter. If you clean your parts, use flux, and mapp gas, and some patience, it will work.

flank

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Reply to
Flank

Thanks for the clarification. I was not sure of it at the time, brain dead again, and I did no bother to look it up.

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

Thanks everybody for taking time to answer my question. Here is how I did it: First I used torch to heat the copper pipe and tried to remove residue of remaining solder with a clean sock(as damp cloth), then I used emery cloth and the other tool(cleaning tool with wire in it) to clean the pipe joint. I can tell that the copper pipe is shiny after cleaning. I am not sure whether I need to clean the fitting of newly bought brass valve or not, should I? Next I applied the flux only to the copper pipe source, then placed the brass valve. I don't have MAPP gas, only the propane gas. I heated the fitting until I can hear the sizzling sound, then I applied the solder. If I use propane torch, how can I tell that time is right to apply solder or in other word, when the fitting is hot enough to apply solder using propane torch? Can propane torch generate enough heat for solering brass valve? Thx again.

Reply to
wenmang

Thanks everybody for taking time to answer my question. Here is how I did it: First I used torch to heat the copper pipe and tried to remove residue of remaining solder with a clean sock(as damp cloth), then I used emery cloth and the other tool(cleaning tool with wire in it) to clean the pipe joint. I can tell that the copper pipe is shiny after cleaning. CY: Clean is essential.

I am not sure whether I need to clean the fitting of newly bought brass valve or not, should I? CY: yes. They sell brushes for doing this. About three bucks for the brush. Worth every penny. The inside surface of the fitting (valve) absoloutely totally has to be cleaned.

Next I applied the flux only to the copper pipe source, then placed the brass valve. CY: Then let it sit for aobut sixty seconds to let the flux work.

I don't have MAPP gas, only the propane gas. I heated the fitting until I can hear the sizzling sound, then I applied the solder. If I use propane torch, how can I tell that time is right to apply solder or in other word, when the fitting is hot enough to apply solder using propane torch? CY: Put the heat on the near side of the fitting. Curve the solder around, and touch it to the far side of the fitting where it meets the pipe. At the exact moment hwen the solder starts to flow, feed in at least an inch of solder. Any excess should drip out.

Can propane torch generate enough heat for solering brass valve? CY: Should be OK.

Thx again.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

ALWAYS clean the fitting. It does not take long for oxidation to cause a problem. Clean and flux.

Practice. When it is hot enough. just a touch will start the solder melting. Once you've done a lot of joints, it gets easy. Rule of thumb is to use a length of soler equal to the diameter of the tubing. Once hte joint is made, just wife around it wiht a thick rag.

Can propane torch generate enough heat for

Yes, but it will take longer. New solders without lead take more heat than the older versions. Open the valve so it does not get damaged by the heat. Apply the heat to the portion of the valve that the tubing slips into. That will draw the solder once if flows.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

You must clean the both valve and the pipe.

You must flux both the valve and the pipe.

It can be soldered with a propane torch, but it will take longer than using a MAPP gas torch.

Reply to
Jim McLaughlin

No, not shiny clean, the surface should be roughened a bit like with sandpaper. Then wipe on waterbase flux on all contact areas to be joined. The brass fittings will require a LOT more heat than copper to get what you want done. It's not welding, but it is significantly hotter than simple copper work. Remarkably, the flux will suddenly be drawn in the void between the parts, and you'll know it worked. Be careful not to move the parts when hot, or the solder joint can be broken. Rather, dip in a bucket of water or hose the parts off to quickly cool the finished joint.

Reply to
Alan

I have seen a plumber fail to heat enough with propane after hours of trying on 1.5" pipe, he did not have map gas.

Reply to
m Ransley

I used to do that sort of thing. And did it well. Then, a few years ago, when I was doing a remod where the flame was an issue, I discovered Copper-Bond. A two-part epoxy product that caused me to decide that technology had caused the torch to no longer be necessary. Do what you decide you need to do. But you have my suggestion. Only change I make is to use Q-tip sticks without the cotton, instead of the

provided squarish sticks provided.

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Reply to
Michael

BS, just roughening it up a bit is a recipe for failure. A pipe joint being soldered does need to be shiny clean. That's what they make those neat little wire brushes for or you can use emery cloth.

Then wipe on waterbase flux on all contact areas to be

Don;t know anyone that plunges soldered joints into cold water either. If that were the case, you'd have a hell of a mess trying to plumb a house!

Reply to
trader4

In addition to what every one else said about cleaning and fluxing there is one very important item. You must remove as much water as possible from the pipe system. Any water in the pipe , for 2 or 3 feet, will draw away the heat and you will not be able to get the pipe hot enough to melt/flow the solder.

I was soldering a connection one time and couldn't completely turn the water supply off. I had to open every faucet in the house to divert water away. Luckily there were other faucets that were lower.

A small pump such as a drill powered pump may work to evacuate the pipe.

Kevin

Reply to
Kevin Ricks

Hi,

I did practice as everybody suggested and failed again. I used a copper pipe about a feet and had it cleaned, so did brass valve with wire brush and both of them were shiny. I applied flux to both pipe and valve. Then I heated it. I noticed that a smoke came off from the othe end of pipe and the edge of joint turned black and I kept heating until the solder melt, but still it did not flow into the joint. I have removed the shut-off part of valve due to that there is rubber on it. I am wondering whether the flux is no good since after failure, I remove the joint, both surfaces of valve and pipe are black with some kind of oxidized stuff. I believe that those black stuff may prevents solder from working. But I just don't know why. The big problem for me is that I don't know when to apply solder. When solder starts melting at the edge of the joint, is it the right time or not? Since the smoke and black thingy formed during the heating, I don't know what is going on there. thx

Reply to
wenmang

You don;t want the solder there when you start heating the joint. You want the joint to get good and hot first, then apply the solder while continuing the heat. The solder should melt readily when it contacts the joint. If it doesn't, take the solder away and continuing heating, it's not hot enough. The best place to apply the solder is on the side or behing the joint, away from the flame. The heat of the joint should melt the solder, not the torch. You should be holding the flame mostly against the brass valve where it joins the copper pipe.

I've never seen flux go bad. Are you sure this is flux for solder joints? It's normal for maybe a wisp of smoke to show up during heating, but you shouldn't be seeing lots of it and the area inside the joint coated with flux should not be turning black.

What size pipe is this and what kind of torch are you using? Does the torch have a proper pencil point shape blue flame?

Reply to
trader4

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