Heat pump recommendations?

[szilagyic]

Hello:

I am looking for suggestions on Heat Pumps, to replace my current propane furnace. I am heating about 2200 sq. ft. and I have a well. I live in Michigan so our temps range from 0 - 90 deg. farenheit throughout the different seasons. I know somebody that lives near us that has had a Bard brand Heat Pump for about 15 years and they love it, that uses their well water and discharges it outside.

I don't know what the current models are, and am looking for suggestions for the different types of Heat Pumps, and brands. I would like a unit that will provide both heating and cooling for the different seasons. It seems that the type that uses the well water and discharges it outside would be the best way to go, for both cost and easy installation (based on the people that I know that have one).

I appreciate any and all feedback, and hope this will help others, too. Especially with the increasing price of natural gas and propane! Our propane has doubled since 2003.

Thanks much,

-- Chris

[PrecisionMachinisT]

Suggest do your own homework........and as your above post doesn't belong in alt.hvac, also quit with the crossposting to here.....

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Now, with that said :

DID you EVEN THINK about MAYBE looking to SEE if the INFORMATION you SEEK just MIGHT be AVAILABLE at FUCKING BARD's WEBSITE??

Why, your most certainly welcome.....

[PrecisionMachinisT]

Hmmm...apparently you really are an idiot then....

I had crossposted in order to make sure that the OP indeed gets my message....this regardless of whether or not he actually takes the time to separately visit each group he had crossposted to....

Ya got anymore stupid questions, asshole ???

--if so, then f****ng ask them someplace else!!!

!!PLONK!!

[Neon John]

Before you go that route, you might want to do some homework and compare the cost of heating with propane vs electricity. Given the cost of electricity up there and the severity of winter, you'll probably find that the heat pump won't get the job done.

For a water-sourced heat pump, you must first determine what size you need and then evaluate your well to see if it will flow enough water. Most wells drilled for potable water won't, at least around here. If you're not going to return the water to the ground via another well then you must test your well over an extended period.

If you're looking for a brand name, most all the major brands are good. If you're going to hire the installation, I'd pay a LOT more attention to the contractor than I would brand names. If the guy is an independent (not an authorized dealer for a brand like York) then he'll probably use Rheem or Ruud for conventional heatpumps. No idea for geothermal heatpumps.

One last comment. I've bought houses with heat pumps on a number of occasions. I have never liked them. The air isn't nearly as hot as produced by combustion appliances. Even though the room may be in the comfort zone, I always felt chilled and I generally like it colder than most folks. I've almost always installed some sort of gas heat to replace the heat pump. I install 'em for people on occasion but I certainly don't like 'em.

John

[Noon-Air]

X-post stopped

Heat pumps when correctly sized and installed are designed to *maintain* a constant even temperature. They do not deliver a blast of hot air, they are not designed for that. Approximately 80% of the systems I install are super high efficiency(13+ SEER) heat pumps and my customers love them. They are so quiet, that the owner isn't even aware that the system is running, and

*just* the savings in propane will pay for the new heat pump system very quickly. Most of these customers are amaised at how comfortable their home has become with the new heat pump system, and how even the temperature stays.

[User Example]

Then why are you cross posting your reply to 4 different newsgroups you hypocritical S.O.B?

[Telstra]

[PrecisionMachinisT]

Problem with air source heat pumps is the capacity drops off as the outdoor temps get low, a 5k btu typically is only able to produce about 1/2 its rated capacity during severe cold snaps....efficiency drops some, too but under these conditions, compressor current draw also drops....

Heplful to look at unit specs to get the idea...most manufacturers have charts available, showing current draw and btuh capacity at various outdoor temps....

Heres a chart for some Luxaire package units, see the heating capacities chart beginning on page 12 of the .pdf document :

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Anyways, in order to make up for this lost heating capacity, electric heat strips or fossil fuel are typically used as backup heat...kicking in whenever there is a cold snap where the heat pump can't keep up...

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Now, the above said, what happens with a well water source unit.......is that your well water temp don't drop much (if at all) during the wintertime.....so what this means is that your full unit heating capacity is always available, and regardless of the outdoor air temps.....hence, greatly lowered seasonal operating costs are obtained by using a well water source unit whenever possible, esp anyplace where the climate is "heating dominated".......this because the unit is always running at close to full efficiency and so your backup electric or fossil heating rarely even kicks in....backup heat mostly only being needed for in the case the heat pump unit might actually fail.

[Dr. Hardcrab]

"Noon-Air" wrote

I'll second that. I am one of those that bad-mouthed heat pumps because 'they blow cold air" and were meant for the Carolinas and further south. I put a 14 SEER Carrier system (with a variable speed air handler) in my dad's house before he sold it. I told him he needed to get some kind of back up like gas or oil heat and he said no. He had lived there with a heat pump for

10 years and he was happy with it. Little did I know I would later buy his house. I have been in there for 4 winters now and I love it. Never really hear the system running and all I know is: When I come home, it's comfortable in the house.

O.K., I do have ventless gas logs in the fireplace and I will turn them on low when it gets down into the teens at night. Sure, the heat pump will do it on it's own, but i just like the idea of not giving all of my money to the electric company. ;-]

Now, grant it, I am in Maryland and not Michigan so your mileage may vary.I just wanted to back up what Noony said.

[Larry Caldwell]

The efficiency gain also applies during the summer air conditioning season. Well water doesn't warm much at all in the summer, so the heat pump is discharging heat into 55 degree water rather than 100 degree air. If you have plenty of water, a water source heat pump is an outstanding year-round HVAC system. Ground source can be as efficient, but is substantially more expensive to install. For energy conservation, you can't beat a water source heat pump.

Backup heat systems should be available for periods of power failure.

[PrecisionMachinisT]

All excellent points.....

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But since I happen to reside in a heating dominated climate, I haven't personally studied all the economics as to the cooling of environmental space using water source heat pumps at any great length...

Mostly, I've resigned to feeling kinda smug in that during our about 3 months of cooling season, ( Pacific Northwest ) we revert to rejecting any waste heat from the home into our swimming pool, instead of using the well water source.

And FWIW, this is also at the point in time where we are also using quite a bit of water for irrigation--and so it seems to work out fairly nicely.......

YMMV