Grass will not grow

Go to google and search for the words COOPERATIVE EXTENSION, plus the name of your state. Many of these organizations will do a detailed soil analysis for free, or very cheaply. Here in NY, it's $1.00 per sample. Get it done. And, be sure to mention what you said above, about the location and the possibility of excess salt. Or, go to a real garden store and pick up a soil test kit. Not just for pH, but also for nutrients.

These tests will determine the chemistry of your soil, but you also need to understand the consistency. At least 24 hours after a good rain, or thorough watering, dig up 2-3 cups of it. Crumble it, then squeeze it into a ball and try to crumble it again. A good rule of thumb is that it should break apart like chocolate cake. You'd be lucky to have soil like that, especially if its a high-traffic area where soil tends to get compressed by feet, etc. If it seem more like clay, you need to lighten it by adding organic matter. Peat moss is a quick fix. Buy some, cut open the package on its front, sort of like the little cereal boxes whose flaps you open to pour in the milk. Take out a chunk of peat moss the size of a large mixing bowl. Fill the resulting hollow with water and come back tomorrow. Right around the hollow, the peat moss will have absorbed the water. Dig out your grass area about 6" deep, mix the soil thoroughly with the peat moss, and put it all back. Put a wide board over it and walk on it gently to flatten it.

Remember that adding peat moss will cause soil to become more acidic. Not a lot, but enough that you'll want to test it next year.

What kind of tree is it? Does the tree have surface roots? Some trees, like Maples, have surface roots and it is virtually impossible to grow grass under them. If the tree has surface roots, it sucks up water and nutrients, plus the grass roots can't go deep enough to get properly established, leading to the sequence of the grass starting to grow, then dying.

If that;s what you have, it can be a real problem. One solution is to get rid of the tree and replace it with a species that doesn't have this problem. If you have a sprinkler system and can water it regularly, you may be able to top dress it with some topsoil and then regularly water and fertilize it. That may work, at least for awhile, till the roots grow up more.

I also assume you are using a shade grass mix?

Factors include: Soil chemistry -- availability of nutrients, -- amount of organic matter (compost) -- acidity etc. Soil texture (compaction prevents water reaching roots) Seed varieties (grass or rye, clover, fescue etc.); also intrusive weeds Watering: lawns grow best with an inch of rain every week (in summer: but beware moss and mildew.) Temperature governs for how many months of the year your grass plants can grow.

You obviously don't have any maple trees in your yard. Perhaps you should come look at my yard, and see the robust lawn underneath my maples.

Ummm... *all* trees have roots near the surface. Grass roots don't go more than a few inches deep. They don't interfere with each other.

Get rid of the tree, without testing the soil first? That's ridiculous.

Should've been the *first* thing to occur to you, not the last...

wok advice so far - I have seen issues when there is bedrock just below the surface causing this too although not in such a large area. You deep can you dig in the area?

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Perhaps you should look at this, before you make an ass out of yourself with your comments:

Norway Maple: Acer platanoides

Why You Should Not Plant Norway Maple!: The shallow, fibrous root system and dense shade of Norway maple make it virtually impossible for grass to grow under the tree. The aggressive roots frequently girdle their parent tree, ultimately choking itself to death. Norway maple is also a non-native exotic. It has escaped the urban environment and is a threat to native maples"

Now all Maples don't have the surface root problems that the Norway species do. But if I asked him if he had this specific variety, do you think he could figure it out? Could you? I figured it was sufficient if he could tell the tree is a Maple and that it has surface roots, which he can readily see.

That's just pla

Got it now? A Maple and it sure talks about surface roots that interfere with a lawn.

Not ridiculous if the tree has surface roots that will always be a problem regardless of the soil.

Now you have an issue with the order of advice too? If I put it first, you;d bitch about that too and say I must think they guy is stupid. At least I know that some trees do have surface roots and don;t make an ass of myself.

Me too. No particular problem growing grass under my maples. Although I threw down a little lime every other year to keep the grass growing under a crabapple tree. However, having some bushes ade trees to the south of it removed some years ago to replace a storm drain has made even that unecessary. It was the light conditions as well as the pH that was keeping it a little bare before that.

Another option is to spread some topsoil and re-seed. I'm doing that because clearly the fill that was spread around after a foundation repair wasn't supporting anything living.

Finally, grass sometimes just plain takes some persistance. I'd overseeded under the crabapple tree even before the light-blocking vegetation was removed, breaking up the soil a bit with an up-and-down motion of a straight rake, with some success. I fully expect to overseed this fall, what I've spread and seeded in the past week or so by the foundation repair.

Banty (for once happy to see a long stretch of rainy days in the forecast...)

Is (or has) this spot subject to foot traffic. The soil may just be too compacted.

For a small patch, its hard to determine exactly why but replacing the topsoil is cheap and usually effective.

Just dig out an inch or so off the top and dump a bag of topsoil and manure then mix that into some native soil, seed, press down and start over.

Certain common Maple species such as Silver maple dont allow anything to grow underneath the root zone. For gardeners intent on planting plants and keeping bad trees a company makes a Copper Sulfate impregnated mesh bad you bury first and plant into. Where I have Maples my hostas are 6" where I have no Maples the same plant type is 3-4ft. So forget the grass, make a rock-moss garden or cut the tree down. Maples literaly suck everything first.

There are many types of trees with strangling roots to some extent, just talk to a good shade gardener, im killing my maples, nothing grows under what I have but weeds.

If you are lucky it is a mixture adjustment, turning it in will lean it of gas, try it turn it in till it runs best.

Most grasses need at least 2 hours of sun a day (not "bright shade"). A tree can suck water and fertilizer, so that is a consideration. Is the rest of the lawn healthy and lush, or "so-so"? If ground is absolutely bare, I would rake it, seed it, water daily until established. If attempted, don't wait for hot weather. Local conditions vary too much for anyone to give the precise answer you need. As others have suggested, local extension service can give good info, as well as soil testing. I would ask them, also, what ground cover might be more appropriate for the spot. You've grown grass before, but extra water and fertilizing at the right time may make a difference, along with thinning the tree to allow more sun. If there are roots at the surface that interfere with mowing, ground cover or shrubs is probably a better choice.

We had a place in the back yard, north side of the house, where the grass just wouldn't grow. The 1st 9' north of the house is now brick pavers .... looks great. The next area, under a maple, is birmed up about 6" high and planted with all kinds of things ... flowers, wild grass clusters and yes, even some weeds look pretty good. We even had some purple kale to give some color. BTW, the maple trunk is about 16' from the house. Add some low voltage lighting and it makes a great area.

Ignoring the pleas to kill your tree.

That's just over a Yard at 1" deep. For that size I might buy 2-3 yards of amendment (whatever compost soil mix you find at the materials yard) spread that over the top and roto till it in then buy sod of an appropriate blend for your location and sun exposure. Add some Gypsem if you have clay to help keep it broken up

That's about $130 in materials plus two delivery charges (unless you have a truck) assuming $0.30/SF for grass and $11 per yard for dirt. You can have it looking great in a couple of days.

You can seed too of course but that's a lot more waiting, hoping and watering then the birds will eat half the seed anyway.

Some of the premium [sod] grasses are more disease resistant. Stay away from grasses like bluegrass that are hard to care for. They are essentially many individual plants so when bare spots develop they don't fill back in. Rhyzomatic grasses (zoyosa) which form dense root masses which spread are better. Consult the sod farm sales person for good local advice.

Well, it's too late for you. Perhaps you should have looked at it first. I don't see anything there that applies to "maples" generically, as you claimed. =

Note "and dense shade".

Doesn't seem to impede the grass from growing under the Norway maple in my backyard, though. I'll be glad to post a photo to show you that you can't believe everything you read.

What's that have to do with growing grass underneath it?

Quite true: not even the Norway maple has such dense surface roots as to prevent grass from growing.

Doesn't matter whether he (or I) could tell what *species* (not "variety") it is, or not -- because it doesn't matter what species of maple it is. Grass will grow underneath it anyway. I have a large Norway maple (Crimson King variety) in my back yard that has at present a *very* lush growth of grass beneath it. Wanna see a picture?

Doesn't matter -- grass will grow under maples just as easily as under any other tree.

Guess again.

Trees have roots that are both shallow *and* deep -- in the same tree.

You really don't understand.

Your advice would have been much better if you'd put that point first -- and then stopped.

You've managed to make quite a thorough ass of yourself here, actually -- go back and read what I wrote.

Careful here -- trader4 is going to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about.

Could very well be the soil. Run a comprehensive soil test to find out. Road salt can make it difficult for most plants to grow and the only practical way to get rid of the salt to replace the soil, drench it, or allow it to rain on it a few dozen times. Petroleum or anti-freeze spills are not good either.

There is no such thing as bad soil. There is only soil that does bad things.

Dig a hole and see what is down underneath. Knew a friend who found out that his front lawn used to be a gravel parking lot for the development. The builder just spread soil over it and laid sod. Also heard of concrete slabs under the soil. Worth checking out.