Grab Bars in a Shower Stall

Does your age start with an 8?

How can you be sure full pressure will never be needed?

Reply to
DerbyDad03
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Starts with a 7. Can't be sure full pressure is never needed. OTOH, if you have nothing, what do you do if you start to slip? Put your soapy hand on a wet wall?. Grab a shower curtain? Perhaps if you had a handle to put your hand on you'd not slip.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to reply here rather than individually.

  1. The bar is to be mounted horizontally rather than vertically - is this recommended against?
  2. Not going to use toggles, as people have recommended against them.
  3. Mounting to a stud is the best, but 2.1 As far as I know the flange at the end has 3 holes for screws at
120 degrees apart. If the "top" hole is centered on the stud, the bottom two will either be at the far sides of the stud, and I wouldn't consider this secure. In addition, the stud may not be plumb enough to guarantee finding a secure anchor and if so, there are holes in the tile. 2.2 It will be unlikely the second end will land on a stud, so then I'm back to toggles. The bar can be angled, but it may have to be angled too much to be useful to meet a stud.
  1. The best solution was to open up the wall on the other side, and put in 2 by 6 between studs where I need them. I hadn't thought of that. I don't know if this is possible yet so I'll check.
Reply to
Charles Bishop

Arnie posted a link to a mount that addresses your stud and non-stud mounting issues.

Did you view it?

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Reply to
DerbyDad03

Drill an additional hole in the mounting flange? What material is the flange made from? If stainless, steel, drilling a hole could be a little tedious but not impossible.

Has the bar been purchased already? Can it be exchanged for a proper length bar? How long is the bar?

If opening up the other side of the wall is an option, then your problems are solved. However, if you can avoid the extra work, I would.

Reply to
Stormin' Norman

I have a built in bar in the shower stall and a built in bar in the tub-shower.

I didn't say I don't think grab bars are a good idea, I said I'd rather do without than rely on a bar where even the manufacturer's lawyers don't trust it.

I don't care what it would take to install a proper grab bar. I would do it. I would never install a suction cup grab bar any sooner than I would put a sawhorse at the edge of a deck and call it a railing.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

We have two bars. One is about 15" and is vertical at the front of the shower. You can easily grab this as you enter or exit. The other is on the back wall. In the 60" shower it is a 48" bar, in the 48" shower we used a 30" bar. The bar in the rear is good to hold while in the shower.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Not everyone can do or have done a proper installation. While a screwed in bar is best, something is better than nothing. That wet soapy hand reaching against a wet flat wall is not going to help much. The suction cup bar will though.

The sawhorse at the edge of the deck is not going to provide the same safety as a railing, but it does give people visual clues that they are near the edge. Could be a life saver.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Per Ed Pawlowski:

I wonder if we are setting up a false choice here: between a bar that is not anchored to a stud and no bar at all.

Reply to
(PeteCresswell)

Let me add, regardless of grab bars, be sure the floor of the shower or tub is slip resistant or has some kind of slip resistant mat or appliques. Also, if the person using the shower is very unstable, a shower seat might be a great investment.

Reply to
Stormin' Norman

I have had to install grab bars over tiles and it is hard to find the edges, so that you can be certain that the screws go into solid wood and not split out the edge.

I used a good stud finder to find the general location of the stud, but then needed to confirm where the center of the stud was.

I had a small diameter steel spring or piano wire length about 1/32" in diameter, sharpened one end to look similar to a drill point and wound copper wire around the other end so that it was large enough for a drill chuck to hold onto.

Then I guided the wire drill bit in between the tiles in the grout joint, where there was no stud the wire would easily penetrate after passing through the grout and backing material. When it hit a stud one would feel it slowly enter the wood. Four or five holes would locate the edges of the stud and confirm where the centerline was so that the tile could be drilled for the anchor screw to be firmly attached.

When finished a little grout or caulking fills the tiny holes to keep water out.

Reply to
EXT

Nothing is nothing and zero help. The suction cup bars are really pretty rugged. The idea is to PREVENT the fall where you have to put extreme pressure on it. Most times you just use a light hold to keep yourself steady. We used one for a couple of years and it is a great aid for safety. When the bathrooms were remodeled the new bars were anchored.

As I stated before, even a bent nail to hold is better than nothing.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Interesting YouTube video. Thanks. It seems to use a style of brace behind the wall that is similar to the one that I had found in a different video. However, this Moen video shows how they base their claim that the device is strong enough to meet all applicable codes. So, maybe it does work.

Reply to
TomR

Did you notice in the moen video how they only tested the vertical impact with a 50 lbs. weight dropped only

12 inches?
Reply to
Stormin' Norman

I agree with your idea and concept in general.

One key point would be whether the grab bar installation would be for me in my own home or if it would be for someone else's home (or a rental property) where the installer (me or a contractor is putting it in for third party use).

In my own home, I don't have a true grab bar. On the wall of the tub/shower there is a metal towel rack. It was there when I bought my home. I doubt that it would meet any standard as a safety grab bar and, fortunately, I have never had to test it by falling and grabbing the towel rack to prevent or slow my fall. My guess is that in a worst case scenario, involving a conscious slip and fall, where I grab the towel rack for safety, it may help slow or break my fall -- which I think is a plus. And, I do sometimes use it for "balance" to keep myself oriented when turning around in the shower/tub etc. But, it is also high enough up that I wouldn't be able to try to use it to pull myself up out of the tub while taking a bath.

So, again, for my own use, what I have now is useful and I don't want to remove it or replace it with a "real" grab bar. But, I also know that I am unlikely to sue myself if I use to towel rack to break a fall and it fails.

In addition, in a true "I passed out unconscious" fainting episode, no grab bar will help because the person who passed out won't be conscious enough to even reach for anything -- unless maybe the person got dizzy first and then became unconscious.

On the other hand, if I (or a contractor) were to install a grab bar for a third party, I think that it would be important to install it up to all of the safety codes as a defense in case and occupant/user of the premises decides to sue the installer (me and/or a contractor) if there is a slip and fall and the installed device fails in some way.

Reply to
TomR

I agree -- that's another option if access to the wall from the other side is available.

Reply to
TomR

Yes, I saw that and thought about it in the same way that you did. However, they seemed to say (or imply) that their system meets or exceeds all known code standards, and I assumed that the 12-inch 50 pound drop test may be one of them. But, I don't know if it is.

Reply to
TomR

Is that wrong? What are the G forces in 12 inches. I think it is about

7.5 so that 50 pound weight is equal to 375#. That was from memory, feel free to nit pick it, but it goes give you a good idea of the real force.
Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

What is the combined applied and gravitational force exerted by a slipping and falling 262 lbs. 6' 7" man, grabbing the bar at his maximum reach with his maximum strength? A rhetorical question, too many variables to bother with.

I am sure the Moen bar would be fine for a 5' 6" 120 lbs. person, as long as the combined backing material isn't too old, or too thin and is in excellent condition. I am also sure the Moen would slow any persons fall to the point where injury would be minimal, except to the pocketbook for repairing the shower tile and wall.

I would rather go directly into the studs, or some other sturdy material behind the tile instead of taking any chances, but that's just me.

Reply to
Stormin' Norman

Dremel has 1/32 drill. Any reason why that would not work?

Reply to
Arnie Goetchius

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