I have a new furnace and a condensate pump the code requires the pump to be on a
gfci so they installed a combination switch receptacle the receptacle is gfci
the switch is not the pump is the only thing on the gfci they replaced the pump
and it still trips any thoughts?
Inspect the wiring and be sure there is nothing touching the enclosure
or the ground (hot or neutral)
If you have a meter, be sure you have no continuity between the motor
leads and ground (with it disconnected from the hot and neutral)
No, iI'd try a "different" pump - not just another identical unit. If
it trips too ----, I'd just get rid of the GFCI after it has passed
inspection. The pumps virtually ALL have minor electrical leakage in
real life operation. The electrics are NOT hermetically sealed, and
they are damp.Not only damp, but the condensate is also
acidic/corrosive. Requiring a GFCI on the pump is ludicrous. Just
ground it well and it is not a safety hazard.
On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-5, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I have a Little Giant condensate pump on a GFCI receptacle, which
is required by code, because it's in a basement. No tripping, ever.
The issue with the receptacle and safety hazard are
that something other than the pump can be plugged in. Probably not
likely, but a homeowner with a flooded basement could be using a
shop vac and plug it in.
On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 4:44:04 PM UTC-5, Tom wrote:
Almost guaranteed to be either the GFCI or its wiring. Make sure that Neutral as well as Hot is going to the GFCI.
But as Dev Null said (paraphrasing here), You paid someone to do this. Don't let them get away with sticking you with an installation that, while they say it meets code, doesn't work.
On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:32:11 PM UTC-5, rangerssuck wrote:
Also unanswered is does it trip instantly when the pump is plugged in?
As soon as the pump comes on? Or only after some period of operation.
Probably the latter, or the installer issue becomes even more interesting.
Removing a safety feature is not a good idea and of course a code violation
. Get someone who is qualified to work on electrical wiring as your install
er does not have a good attitude and is setting himself up for possible lia
bility if someone got hurt or died from using a non-GFCI receptacle. Would
you want a family member to plug into that unprotected outlet?
On Thu, 08 Dec 2016 18:59:51 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
Or a 12 volt pump or a medical grade isolation transformer. Or some
inspectors will accept a single 15 amp twist-lock outlet - making it a
"dedicated" outlet for a single use. - equivalent to a "hard wired"
device.. Or install the outlet inside the case of the furnace. The
furnace isn't GFCI protected either.
On Thu, 08 Dec 2016 20:45:42 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
12v would work but the wall wart would be on a GFCI.
Isolation transformers are not a fix for anything in the code.
They still must have a grounded conductor if you use a chapter 3
wiring method on the secondary (unless it is part of a listed
Not for the last couple cycles.
"210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for
Personnel. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for
personnel shall be provided as required in 21O.8(A) through
(C). The ground-fault circuit-interrupter shall be installed in
a readily accessible location"
"(A)(5) Unfinished basements - for purposes of this section,
unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas
of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and
limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like"
That is seen to be pretty unambitious. All of the old exceptions are
gone except for a fire alarm system (that is not a smoke detector)
Maybe but you might get cited for a 110.3(B)
modifying a listed product.
Why not just fix the friggin pump? If water is getting into the
windings or the wiring compartment the mo fo is broke.
On Thu, 08 Dec 2016 22:27:50 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
The wall wart on a gfci powering the pump won't trip the GFCI An
isolation transformer constitutes a seperately derived power source
and a "medical grade" isolation trasformer has zero leakage It can be
grounded with no effect on the GFCI because the GFCI compares line to
neutral - it does not measure ground current. The isolation
transformer removes the ground reference from the neutral so there is
no shock danger from either line or neutral (now technically l1 and
l2) and ground
Here in ontario they still did a couple years ago
And 90+ percent of them out there ARE "broke". Same with sump pumps.
If I had a house that required a sump pump to keep the basement dry
there is no way in hell I'd have it on a GFCI. One day it WILL trip,
and the water level will rise, causing water damage .
My preference is a house sitting high enough on a well enough drained
area that no sump pump is required - which is what I own now.
I just did some investigating - and in ontario a sump pump does NOT
require a GFCI under certain conditions. The same applies to water
pressure pumps. I can see it also applied to condensate pumps -
as quoted below
Does the Ontario Code require ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI)
protection for sump pumps or water pressure system pumps in homes?
No, the Code does not require GFCI protection of these specific
appliances unless they are supplied by receptacles that happen to be
within 1.5 m (5') of a sink, are installed out of doors and located
within 2.5 m (8' 2") of ground level, or are within 3 m (10') of a
pool or hot tub, or as required by manufacturer installation
Rules 26-700, 26-710, 26-714, 68-068.
I have been told a single twist lock ceiling mounted outlet for a sump
pump is allowed without a GFCI
On Thu, 08 Dec 2016 23:19:14 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
... but a medical isolation transformer is not legal to serve a
receptacle that is not part of a piece of listed medical equipment.
If you read the rules on an SDS, you see one side needs to be
Is the OP in Ontario?
... and it sounds like you are saying the CeC caught up with the NEC.
There are plenty of defective refrigerator compressors out there too
that are happily sparking and arcing inside the can but it is still
not legal to avoid GFCI requirements, just because you don't want to
buy a new one.
How long ago was that? I can dig through old code books and find a
rule that says it is legal to ground a receptacle to any convenient
cold water pipe but it is not 1975, even if you still have a leisure
suit in the closet.
On Thu, 08 Dec 2016 23:54:53 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
So you plug the iso;lation transformer into the GFCI with a grounded
pluf, and then you connect the pump to the isolated secondary,
bridging the ground - assuming the pump has a grounded plug, not a
In Ontario it is - depending where the refrigerator is. Not required
for the refrigerator in my main floor kitchen or in my finished
basement. In fact not even recommended for the refrigerator.
Because my refrigerator and outside outlet are on the same circuit, I
could not use a GFCI breaker and had to install a GFCI outlet in the
weatherproof exterior outlet enclosure. That was a requirement of my
GFCI protection devices are also required for all 15A and 20A, 125V
receptacles located in garages and grade-level portions of unfinished
or finished accessory buildings used for storage or work areas of a
dwelling unit [210.8(A)(2)]. However, there are a couple of exceptions
to this rule. GFCI protection is not required for receptacles that are
not readily accessible, such as a ceiling-mounted receptacle for a
garage door opener. Nor are they required for a receptacle on a
dedicated branch circuit located and identified for a
cord-and-plug-connected appliance, such as a refrigerator or freezer.
This was confirmed by an inspector last year when I looked at buying
a house with a sump pump (and a lot of drainage issues which forced me
to pass on an otherwise very desireable house). See the above ecmweb
reference for confirmation.
Those exceptions that you mentioned have been eliminated from the current 2
014 National Electrical Code. A ceiling receptacle in a garage does need G
FCI protection, but the GFCI needs to be located where it is readily access
ible for testing. A single dedicated outlet in the garage for a refrigerat
or also is required to have GFCI protection as well as a sump pump. I thin
k someone mentioned in another post that the only exception is an electrica
l outlet dedicated for an alarm system. Your jurisdiction may still be ope
rating under an older code.
On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 12:55:01 PM UTC-5, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Another good example of going down rat holes, trying to kludge
crap together, when there is no need. It's code that basement
receptacles have to be GFCI. There are millions of high eff
furnaces. If condensate pumps were incompatible with GFCI,
tripping them, there would be a huge problem. Apparently there
isn't. The OP has a brand new pump, brand new GFCI. Something
is either defective or wired incorrectly. The solution would seem
to be to fix it, not kludge around it.
On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 8:45:45 PM UTC-5, email@example.com wrote
tion. Get someone who is qualified to work on electrical wiring as your ins
taller does not have a good attitude and is setting himself up for possible
liability if someone got hurt or died from using a non-GFCI receptacle. W
ould you want a family member to plug into that unprotected outlet?
Or just do it right. There are lots of condensate pumps on GFCI,
including my Little Giant. Six years of operation for both heat and
AC and no trips. There is no reason a new pump and a new GFCI should
be tripping. It's very likely either something is defective or it's
wired incorrectly. THAT is the bottom line.
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