GFCI resolution

[Ed Pawlowski]

A few days ago I asked about a GFCI situation in my granddaughter's RV. Found the problem. Well, I didn't find it but a pro that works on RVs did.

There was a wire to a different receptacle that was evidently damaged from the current draw. One that was replace, power came back to the two by the sink. There was a third that was also out but that was from a bad receptacle and it was replaced by a real home type instead of the RV type. It was a potential fire hazard.

Also found the problem with the refrigerator, bad circuit board, that is on order.

If you never worked on and RV, they are different that what you are used to at home. The fridge is a dual fuel, propane or electric. The electric also has a dual 12V and 120V on some items. especially lighting. The receptacles are different too and have a system that cut into the insulation, no screws, no backstab.

[micky]

That's good. One time my brother's stepson said that he washed my brother's car. Later I found out he took it to a car wash. I'm still trying to decide if his words were misleading.

They have cheapo receptacles in RVs?

Hmmmp. Is this just because they fit in thinner walls? Yet you were able to replace one with a home type.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Thee is enough space to put a shallow box but the wall covering themselves are thinner than the typical sheetrock house.

[Clare Snyder]

you don't need to wait for the NEXT replacement. The aftermarket boards are beter than the originals, but THAT isn't saying much!!!!

[Clare Snyder]

shown, are insulation displacement units that just "srimp" onto the wire - - -

[micky]

I'd rather have the thing stick out a half inch or an inch than use markedly inferior receptacles.

[gfretwell]

Cool. Glad it was something easy and you know what to look for now.

[gfretwell]

The drop bin receptacles at HD are smaller than the RV thing Ed showed, if you use the side screws they would be fine. You just have to dress the wires carefully. If it was stabbed you can't dress the wires properly, the bend is too tight and you "spring" the spring that let you stab.

That is the real problem with the back stabbers.

I have never been a fan of IDC connectors but the RV/Trailer business loves them. In this application the charm is the wire comes out to the side and they are easier to dress. You are not really screwing with the IDC if the cover is on right. It clamps the insulation. Think of a Keystone you punch down a Cat 5/6 into and close the lid. That is a pretty secure connection.

This punch block is rated 120v 20a.

[gfretwell]

Put a wiremold box over it, that gives you about an inch and it is listed and doesn't look horrible.

[micky]

Maybe I misunderstood but Ed gave me that impression.

[Ed Pawlowski]

The RV ones are OK from the factory but do not lend themselves to be worked on as easily as a residential doe to the way the wires are inserted. Using the residential one are at least as safe as in your house. They don't stick out of the wall either.

[Clare Snyder]

In a LOT of RVs and motor homes the walls are only an inch thick, with 1/4" or less thicjnes of wall covering. On my last trailer the walls were 3/4 inch thick and on the last one I workes on they were about 1 3/4"- 2X2 framing. Some of the "better" unirs use 2X3 - and a lotof the "aluminum framed" units are 1 1/4 inch

[Clare Snyder]

The "correct" RV plugs would NEVER pass for use in a "house"

[Clare Snyder]

In SOME RVs - in others you pretty much need a "surface mount" switch or box.

[gfretwell]

The NEC and the HUD rules do not apply to RVs and I am not sure they actually have any regulation other than NHTSA rules about them as a truck (brakes lights etc). Some companies use that loophole to sell what you might think is a park model trailer but it is nowhere near that level of regulation. It is an RV, with tags on it. Be aware some mobile home parks would not let you set your "RV" there and some AHJs would not "permit" them as a residence. My SIL had one and he had to cord and plug connect it to the power post in an RV spot because the AHJ would not give him a permit to hard wire it. This was one of those trailers that you take the wheels off and set on a base but titled as an RV. It was good for him when he worked for DEP and moved around a lot tho. That loophole let him set it up on park land.

[bud--]

??? 90.2-A-1 says the NEC applies to mobile homes and recreational vehicles.

But the links from Ed were not impressive.

[gfretwell]

Perhaps my phrasing was bad. HUD is the enforcing agency for this stuff and if they are not enforcing the NEC on RV's, who is?

You don't need a permit to work on an RV. That is why the AHJ here would not let them hardwire my SIL's RV (Not a HUD approved unit). It was just a piece of cord and plug equipment to them. Maybe something changed but that was what it was in the early 00s

[bud--]

Also are NEC articles for RVs and mobile homes. But the NEC, as far as you are concerned, applies to when the thing is 'installed'. Would think you would also look at significant changes that are made, but maybe there aren't any. Replacing furnace or water heater in mobile home?

UL (White Book) has standards for a lot of what is used to manufacture a unit. The question is who enforces the standards & NEC when manufactured, which is what you are talking about.

[gfretwell]

I am not sure if it got better but there wasn't any recognized testing lab certifying RVs when this happened unlike HUD that does do plan review on the design of "mobile homes" and presumably inspects the factory to be sure they are making the product they certified. Being in the NEC doesn't mean much without inspection. The AHJ said without any recognized certification it was just another unlisted piece of cord and plug equipment. Crusty old fart? maybe but at the time he was right. It wasn't a big deal. The RV had 2 50a disconnects and we just had to put back the pigtails so they could plug it into a regular dual RV post. When they had it up in the panhandle they just hung a 100a meter main on the side of the RV and hard wired into 2 50a breakers. The drop went to that. This guy wasn't going for it. I had already driven 2 rods so we connected the RV frame to that GEC and I slept fine