I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an example:
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$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6 kW -- ). They have a 17 kW for about $3500.
This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor alone! And of course the lack of stored gasoline....
Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3 million other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent power problems, and should proly prepare. As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in CT.
Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this particular brand, other brands? Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search results. :)
The only time natural gas fails, there's usually just a big crater left behind. Unless you're using LP, natural gas is way at the top of the reliability list.
You know what? Most people get a good feeling from helping other people. I thought you did too.
In this last storm I was on both the receiving and giving end. I think we all came out ahead.
I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator that ran on natural gas. He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago. It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane. Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and he bought a new one.
My two cents is this. The automatic transfer generators add compexity and more sources of failure as well as cost. For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator, an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. Some kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat gas, propane, or gasoline.
IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't going to be someone there to connect the generator and start it up. Otherwise a portable that you can connect when needed as well as have for other possible portable uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.
And in my recommended solution, if the generator is trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.
Honda (I think it was Honda) was making nat-gas furnaces for the Jap market that included some sort of AC generator that could power the furnace and supply maybe 1000 watts of extra juice. This was about 4 or
5 years ago.
Then there are nat-gas powered AC units, something that really hasn't gained much press here in US/Canada (at least not for the residential market).
I really would like to power more things off nat-gas for the home, especially electricity and AC.
And I really would like to store some decent amount of nat-gas (sort of like playing the markets - buy it in the summer when it's cheap, use it through the winter when everyone else is paying more).
I know this is getting off-topic, but when will we consumers be able to buy large quantities of gasoline, natural gas, and even electricity on some sort of futures market for use at home (or our own car) ?
(not sure why this was x-posted to metalworking...)
At $1,250, something like this would appeal to me if I lived in an area with unreliable power:
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It doesn't include a transfer switch, though. There are some systems (such as the furnace and gas water heater electrics) that you'd want powered in a long blackout.
Honda (I think it was Honda) was making nat-gas furnaces for the Jap market that included some sort of AC generator that could power the furnace and supply maybe 1000 watts of extra juice. This was about 4 or
5 years ago.
Then there are nat-gas powered AC units, something that really hasn't gained much press here in US/Canada (at least not for the residential market).
I really would like to power more things off nat-gas for the home, especially electricity and AC.
And I really would like to store some decent amount of nat-gas (sort of like playing the markets - buy it in the summer when it's cheap, use it through the winter when everyone else is paying more).
I know this is getting off-topic, but when will we consumers be able to buy large quantities of gasoline, natural gas, and even electricity on some sort of futures market for use at home (or our own car) ?
(not sure why this was x-posted to metalworking...)
FWIW ( and even less related), back in the late '70s, when fuel prices were out of sight, several large office buildings in NYC installed natural-gas co-generation units for electricity and heating.
Here's the part that got me: They were based on Chevy 396 V8s. The company that installed them said that life was unknown in those engines running natural gas, but it was many times their life running gasoline.
After the petroleum crisis was over, I never heard another word about them. One was in a building just a few blocks from where I worked at the time, in midtown. Skyscrapers don't really need a lot of heat. They have so much waste heat that some of them actually run air conditioners in the winter.
I remember seeing something on TV a few years ago about a gasoline futures market for consumers and fleets. You could buy in for as little as $50. Interesting concept.
You can do it now. Just buy and sell futures. If you work it right, all the folks who don't own them will be paying the difference between your current gas bill, and what you paid for it when it was cheaper.
When you consume your portion of it doesn't matter.
So, along these lines, I was wondering what would be involved in modifying my Subaru gasoline-powered generator to run from Nat Gas. after having worked as a motorcycle mechanic years ago, I truly hate the smell of gasoline, and it's virtually impossible to pour 6 gallons into the generator's tank without spilling at least a few drops. Even with nitrile gloves, I still have to scrub my hands to make the smell go away.
The 5500W generator will run about 14 hours lightly loaded, but it still means at least one trip to the gas station (if you can find an open one that has gas) and two refillis of the genny per day. It would be great to have gas power.I have a manual transfer switch, and no need for an automatic one. All of my critical stuff is on batter UPS power which gives me plenty of time to fire up the generator.
As for neighbors, we all share. There a lots of people on my block with generators, as our power has been, well, shitty in the past feww years. What I seem to be loaning out more than electricity is extension cords, of which I have plenty. Since I installed the transfer swirtch, I don't really need the extensions, so the neighbors are welcome to them.
In this last storm, one of my neighbor's generator died. The moteor ran fine, but it put out zero volts (well, about 1.25 volts). It was a bad cap (12uF, 325VAC), and I didn't have one in stock. Found one at Granger, but they were closed. That's when I learned something really cool - For an additional $50, they'll send someone to open the store - any time, night or day. My neighbor jumped all over that - $8 for the cap, $50 for the store opening and His wife is gonna cook me up a mess of ribs for my trouble.
In the previous storm, I ran extensions to three neighbors to run their sump pumps, and we spent the rest of the day polishing off a bottle of bourbon, and they bought me cans of gasoline.
So, contrary to Stormin's experience, dealing with my neighbors through stuff like this has been fine. I worried that it might become like the Twilight Zone episode where the guy has a f**ck of a time keeping his neighbors from overrunning his bomb shelter, but nothing like that has happened.
But, does anybody know if it would be possible to do a natural gas conversion to my 13(I think) HP Subaru?
Assuming the Generac was installed and maintained properly, and the automagic controls did the regular cycling (once a month for an hour?) to make sure nothing froze up, I'd be leaning on dealer and manufacturer over that short a lifespan. It had at most a hundred hours on it? I certainly wouldn't eat a failed unit, unless it was my mistake that killed it. No good reason such an installation shouldn't last for
30+years. Or was neighbor overloading it trying to light up the whole neighborhood or something?
"Survival mode" demands that I be able to work, rather than sitting around enjoying the quiet while my power is out for four days. Last month, I had my cell phone tethered to a windows machine and used internet connection sharing to power up my whole network. With Verizon
4G, it was almost as good as my cable connection, though I didn't have my static IPs.
I also have a sump pump that, during a particularly rainy period, runs as often as every two minutes. If it doesn't run, "enjoying the quiet" rapidly turns into cleaning up water from the basement floor.
Point is, I use my generator for more than running the fridge and furnace. And that was, byu the way, 14 hours at a time before refueling. I actually ran it 24 hours a day, shutting down only for refueling.
During the hurricane in August I ran mine for about 2 hours in the morning, then about 3 hours at night. Main issue was keeping refrigerator and one freezer OK. The 3 hours of lights would be enough at night, but I was spending most of my time at a friends house who had power.
In winter, running it a bit every few hours as needed for heat as you suggest, then a few hours at night for lights, microwave should be all that's needed. Of course there are folks that want an automatic start system that will provide power 24/7. But that's overkill for me and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to all the noise.
Maybe you should just move to a better neighborhood. There were more than 2 million people without power and no incidents of people with generators being attacked by their neighbors.
AFAIK, that's a worst-case for after-market conversions with poor airflow. Best-case is about a 4% loss, and real-world typically ends up being somewhere between the two (but I think CNG usually reduces efficiency more than LPG does).
I suppose most people over-spec their generators anyway, rather than buying them to run right at their load limits, so even a loss in maximum power as high as 20% might not be an issue in most cases.
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