Most brands: Under 1/10 second. Federal Pacific Electric: Well over 5 years before it trips.
With no breaker, my WAG is that either a secondary wire on the generator overheats and burns out, or the motor slows to stall point. Either of those in two to ten seconds. Easily enough time to kill a pole worker.
a) it'll be out of phase and very unlikely at all to not stall it immediately; the overload is later
b) it was postulated the line was _already_ live; the gen-set in this case wouldn't be the culprit (altho still both illegal and stupid trick to pull).
Back-feed to distribution system is a serious problem when the line is _supposed_to_be_ disconnected (and has been by the utility or known damage) so the presence of voltage is unexpected. If they know they're working on stuff live then they won't work as if they were working on a (known) disconnected line. Where it's really a problem (and got one of our local co-op linemen a few years ago) is a situation such as a disconnected line, actually confirm it was isolated and talk to the farmstead owner who subsequently got impatient and hooked up the gen-set while they were still working w/o notifying them... :(
Moral of story as homeowner is--don't be an ass or dumbshit...
If you connect your generator to the power grid you're interfering with THEIR system without their knowledge or permission.
Agreed. And if it's crucial to them, they might consider protecting their infrastructure. This same power company puts fences around their substations and seals on their meters and signs that say "Don't dig here."
During storm damage conditions it may or may not be possible for power company staff to install temporary short circuits on downed lines.
With an attitude like that no wonder there are problems in society!
If I want to sneeze in your face I should have every right to do so! I'll shoot my gun off anywhere I want; passing motorist and pedestrians should install metal plate armour in their vehicles and wear bullet proof clothing. If want to I'll piss in any river, pond, water supply, swimming pool; to hell with the fish or health of other humans! Fireworks? Sure fire them off anywhere you want; who cares about grass fires or someone else's property. If I want to drive 100 mph in a school or pedestrian zone I'll do so. Sex. Yes anywhere any time with anyone; and ignore catching (or transmitting) AIDS or other STDs! Vaccinations. Don't bother to sterilise his/her arm; just stick in the needle! Boating? If I want to cut across the bow of another boat .............................. THEY should avoid me ................ Oops: CRASH!!!!! ......... HEEEELP! Hey can anyone lend me a life jacket .................... !.
They do. Thats why there are specific requirements about interlocking which are enforced by electrical codes and standard practice. There really is no way to justify your really bizarre thinking about disregard for human life no matter how hard you try.
Bah! Neither the electrical code nor standard practice have any enforcement mechanism. They're like the Ten Commandments: there is no penalty attached for violation.
And just what is my bizarre thinking? That power companies should provide interlocks to their customers that have generators? The 'phone company used to provide interference suppression devices for customer-owned telephones, ostensibly to protect their circuits from non-conforming equipment. Many water companies provide backflow preventers to keep their product pure.
The power company already installs lightning arrestors, reclosures, and ground wires on almost every pole - again to protect their equipment.
It's the concept I'm arguing.
Tell you what's really bizarre: your concluding that I have no regard for human life. You didn't find that in my post. In fact, just the opposite. I suggest that if the power company DID provide interlock devices, the chance for injury would be lessened.
well at home resale a illegal interconnect will be red flagged by any decent home inspector
I've heard they are supposed to use ground straps on "known to be dead" lines. Figuring if someone charges the line, it should trip off the breaker immediately.
That farmer story reminds me of the day I was standing on a chair in a woman's dining room. We'd identified the breaker (I'll stomp on the floor when you get the right one). I'm on the second floor, the breakers in the cellar. She sarted out of the room I called after her "Debbie, where are you going?" "You look like you're almost through, so I'm gong to to turn on the power again." I gave her a few stern words.
She was both of those terms. A dry alcoholic, she played a stiff game of getting herself in trouble, so others could rescue her.
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:10:08 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote Re Re: Generator wiring options:
And the customers have the generators because the power companies (PCs) cannot provide sufficient reliability. That's sometimes not the PCs fault, e.g. weather; but then the PCs should be willing to provide the interlock if the customer provides the genset.
I like the way you think.
And you know this how? (really think about it)
Every water company I am familiar with requires the *end user* to install backflow preventers per their specification just like *ALL* electrical suppliers require isolation and interlocking of alternate supplies.
No, you are arguing that you want to do it your way and everyone else should pay for some elaborate protection system.
Right, thats why you wrote this:
"Certainly. Chances are, if a lineman IS killed, you didn't know him. So, ask yourself the next time you're standing in the long line at the movie or restaurant.... "
So are you the bored housewife I think you are who writes nonsense to amuse yourself?
Thats your cherry picked scenario. What about a typical place where someone would have a generator such as my friend who lives in the woods and the next customer is a half mile down the road. If the primary should fall somewhere after the customer next to him and he were to do a half ass connection of his generator and backfeed the power line the transformer serving his house will step it up to a lethal 7.2 kv and keep it energized.
Moral of the story. You can't possibly foresee every condition. Thats why we develop methods such as interlocking and isolation.
there are standards and safety regulations for very good reasons.......
The NEC is there to save future lives.
That's hardly a cherry picked scenario. Most neigborhoods have many homes on the same circuit off the transformer. Accidentally backfeeding pops the generator circuit breakers immediately. Well before the tranformer secondaries can ramp up any. The lone house in the country is more like a cherry picked scenario.
Wow! Seven galons. My little Coleman has a one gal tank. For winter power cuts, I run it for an hour or so in the evening to run the furnace. It has been a while, but I don't think I ever totally fill the one galon tank. Use oil lamps and flash lights for light.
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:48:25 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote Re Re: Generator wiring options:
Yes, thank God they have *finally* specified which direction the ground prong is supposed to point on a 120v outlet.
A friend of mine works for The Sister Mary Elephant TV network in Irondale and when we had a freak snow storm in 93, Alabama Power sent a crew via helicopter to disconnect the lines going to the TV transmitters and satellite uplink facilities which had full power backup via huge generators. I suppose that was something to be a bit paranoid about for the power company.
TDD
My PowerBoss has 5,500 running watts and 7,350 peak. I think tank is 7 gal but I've never run more than a tank in one day. Last time I used it was last week. I had a furnace check scheduled and power went out 4 hours before furnace guy was to arrive, so I turned on generator when he called and said he was on his way. He had no problem checking out furnace and there was power to the furnace room light so he could see well. Power came back about 2 hours after he left.
It's unfortunate the degradation in our power grid. We live in an area with a lot of trees and power company does not trim enough. After 11 outages one year lasting up to 3 days, I bought generator.
Who is there to save past lives? *snicker*
TDD
Mormons, doing genealogy, and ordinances in the temples.
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