On Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:36:57 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
That depends on where the shut-off is located. Even if it's in an
accessible place in the basement, it usually involves getting a ladder
or large stool to stand on to reach the valve. Then you have to remember
to repeat the process and turn it off. Not something I'd want to do
when the freeze-proof sill cock avoids it all. If it's behind a
washing machine, above a finished basement ceiling, etc, then it could
be a bigger pain.
Your post reminds me of what I call "panic prose", the type of wording you
hear in many infomercials.
You know, watching the nice lady fight with the totally tangled garden
hose, getting all frustrated, while the voice-over says "No more wrestling
with heavy, tangled hoses that will kink and split and completely ruin your
life and the life of your kids." Then there’s the guy that shoves the Q-Tip
half way into his brain while the voice-over warns of punctured eardrums.
"...it usually involves a ladder or a large stool..."
Obviously, we would need to poll numerous households to find out where
their shutoffs are located to see if you use of the word "usually" fits.
All I can relate is that in my case, the shut offs for all three of my
spigots are easily accessible with no climbing apparatus required. The same
holds for the shut offs at my dad's house and my sister's house. I do
indeed close my shutoffs in the winter and, at least so,far, I don't have
any problem remembering to close them again if I open them in the winter.
Regardless of the accessibility of the shutoffs, or the inconvenience of
their use, to claim that using a shutoff means "no water available outside
for months" is, as I'm sure you know, complete BS.
I think it's a lot based on personal experience.
When I was a kid, the shut offs for the half bath
were waaaay up there, over a cellar sink. It was
a real challenge to get at them. OTOH, some shut
offs are almost as convenient as the device being
Do I get the free potato dicer thrown in,
if I get the ladder and the shut off,
On Friday, November 15, 2013 11:27:28 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
You mean it's outside at the sillcock, when you're attaching
a hose to wash off something in Jan? If I have to go inside,
down into the basement, which is very typical, twice, even if
you don't need a ladder to stand on, which I would, to me,
that isn't "almost as convenient". With a FP sillcock, you
connect the hose and turn it on just like you do in July.
On Friday, November 15, 2013 11:12:15 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
There is no water available unless you go through whatever
it takes to turn the water back on, so it's not "regardless of
the accessibility or the inconvenience".
I think everyone here,except you, understood that.
If you want to screw around with
shutoff valves, drains, etc instead of using a freeze-proof
sillcock and then shut them off in fall, turn them back on in
spring, go turn them back on if you want some outside
water several times in January, be my guest. IDK about you and where your
shutoff valve is located, but my sillcock comes in the basement
straight through the wall. You can't reach the plumbing
without a ladder. And that assumes you haven't finished
off the basement, have shelves or something in the way, etc.
I've seen lots of new construction and they are all done that
way. They use freeze-proof sillcocks, for obvious reaonson,
but if they didn't where they come in is *not* reachable without
a ladder or similar.
Maybe you should team up with Nestork,
who thinks installing a freeze-proof sillcock half-assed, slanting
backwards, followed by a valve and drain is a cool idea.
The simple fact is, freeze-proof sillcocks are widely used,
they work and they have major advantages to the manual shutoff
approach from 50 years ago. They are installed in most new construction
here. I've had them for 30 years and they work. The only
time I had one fail is when I left a hose connected and
forgot about it. I would not go back to the inferior, manual
My only issue is with your wording, not with your or anyone else's thoughts
related to drains, etc. I agree that a drain is unnecessary, so I don't
have to team up with nestork or anyone else. I also have no issues or
questions related to the quality of freeze-proof sillcocks, their use,
their advantages, etc.
The only issue I had was with your words "no water available outside for
months". That is what I refer to as "panic prose", meaning words that are
used to intimate that the only possible outcome is the worst possible
Come on, trader...aren't you one of the members of this ng that parses
posts and reminds people of what they said? You specifically said "no water
available outside for months". Period. Now look back...that is the one and
only thing I questioned.
It now appears that you have amended that and added "unless you go through
whatever it takes to turn the water back on". That is vastly different than
simply saying "no water available outside for months". While a freeze-proof
sillcock is certainly more convenient than an internal shutoff, the claim
that an internal shutoff results in "no water available outside for months"
is simply not true.
On Friday, November 15, 2013 12:56:39 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
So, if I said that after I winterize my lawn sprinkler system,
I can't water the lawn for months, that's BS too, right? Because
technically I can go turn it back on again, then reverse the whole
process. Or once I cover and wrap up a boat for the winter, I can't say
that I can no longer get stuff out of it, because if
I *really* wanted to, I could go unwrap the thing to go get the
wrench I left in the cabin. I'll make sure to keep all possibilities
in mind in the future for the pendatic among us.
On Friday, November 15, 2013 1:40:15 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm, pretty sure you're now on my list of pedantic idiots.
Next time you make some post, the meaning of which is obvious,
I'll make sure to rip you apart too based on super strict
interpretations. The simple fact is that once people turn
off, winterize whatever it is, they usually don't turn it back
on because they don't want to go through the inconvenience.
And to me, to wash something off outside with a hose, it would be
very inconvenient to take a ladder from the gararge, carry it
through the house to the basement, get up to turn the valve to the
sillcock back on, repeat the process after I'm done, etc.
Given the PIA the whole thing is, you typically wouldn't use
the freaking outside sillcocks until spring, unless it was
For the enlightened, there is a very easy solution. That is a
freeze-proof sillcock. You want to do it the way it was done
50 years ago and pretend that is practical, be my guest.
Feel free to make that your life's work.
Have you ever heard the phrase "renting space in your head"? I guess I just
But please, for the love of God and all that is sacred, stop bringing up
frost free sillcocks and ladders and garages and all that other crap. If
you've got a problem with me calling you on your use of the phrase "no
water available outside for months", that's fine. What is getting so tiring
is that you appear to think it's about something else. It's not. Really,
it's not. I've actually said that in no uncertain terms in my previous
If it'll make you feel better, I'll install a frigging frost free sillcock
so you'll realize it has never, ever been about that.
On Saturday, November 16, 2013 4:50:52 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Good grief. Are you losing your mind? The whole thread was about
frost-proof sillcocks, but now that's crap and I'm not supposed
to bring it up?
As for needing a ladder and having to get one from the
garage down into the basement to turn the water back on it's not
crap. It's the process I'd have to go through to be able to
wash off something in Jan if I didn't have frost-proof ones.
It's such a PIA, that most people wouldn't do it, unless they
really had to. Hence, God forgive me for saying that with a
regular sillcock you don't have water outside for months. I
figure most folks here have enough brains to know what I meant
and that if someone really wanted to turn it back on, of
course they could.
But perhaps there are some dolts here that think that it's on
some time lock, where once it's off, it can't be put back
on until April. I'm sure they appreciate your helping them out.
Apparently so. You know that definition of insanity related to trying the
same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? Well, I'm
Regardless of how many times I say that I have no issue with the use of
frost free sillcocks and that the one and only single solitary item I took
issue with was a specific phrase ("no water available outside for months")
you still keep harping about sillcocks and ladders.
You even amended your statement about "no water" so somewhere deep down
inside you seem to understand that that specific phrase is all I have been
talking about. Yet for some reason, you still feel the need to try and
convince me that I'm wrong about sillcocks and ladders and people's
reluctance to use their shutoff during the winter.
Good grief is right.
There ya go! It sure would have saved a lot of typing if you had just done
Now we can finally put this discussion to rest. Enjoy the rest of your
On Sunday, November 17, 2013 12:06:32 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I acknowledged that point in my first reply to you.
But you won't accept, nor hear the relevant part, that
it's often a PIA to turn the water back on again, just
because you want to wash out a garbage can in January.
That PIA, in my case would involve getting a ladder from
the garage, hauling it through the house to the basement,
just to open a valve. THAT is why in most cases once
they are shut off, they remain off until spring. That you
really could turn the thing back on again if you really
wanted to, was obvious to everyone. So,
who's the stubborn ass here? I acknowledged your point,
the for several posts now, but
you keep making posts where you say I can't even talk about
sillcocks, ladders, what a PIA it is to go open the
re-winterize one just for a bucket of water, etc.
No go fuck yourself. How's that? Is that an acceptable
part of the discussion?
Wow! You seem to be spitting and sputtering all over your keyboard. Just
how far into your head have I gotten? Starting a Sunday on such an angry
note is real shame.
As for your latest suggestion, I think not. Instead, I'm going to spend the
day with the woman who did a fine job taking care of that for me last
Now, take a deep breath, relax, and enjoy what's left of the weekend.
Do a google image search on frost proof hydrant.
Lots of pics of vertical, in-the-ground, devices like this...
...with a few pics of the through-the-wall devices that we have been
discussing in this thread.
Then do an image search on frost proof sillcock.
Nothing but through-the-wall devices.
Maybe it's a regional thing?
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 19:42:03 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
Could be. Up here in Canada (Ontario, anyway) the frostproofs are
called hydrants. The non-frostproof are called sillcocks, or simply
faucets. A hydrant is considered to be a self draining direct acting
remote water valve (dry hydrant)
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