Four questions about actual antennas and installation

[mm]

I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches. And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely, and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with Winegard antennas, or any other brand? (I"m afraid they might be riveted on, loose enough to open but not more than that.)

3) The truss 2x4's are all at oblibque angles and I can move the antenna up and down and forward and back, so it's likely I can find a spot where they all extend, and I'm sure this question is obvious, so please excuse me, but which is better, an antenna with 36 elements but where one was permanently removed in order to mount or aim the antenna, or a smaller one one with 28 elements??? (Or 41 and 36) IIUC, I might have removed an essential one, but I could probably remove another for a station I don't receive, move the antenna, and put the first one back, right??

4) Does it matter if I tighten the F-connector all the way to tight. Usually, just touching the center wire to the center hole is enough to get a good and strong picture, without even touching the outer nut to anything. But with weak signals, like distant channels, does it matter if the connection is tight?

Thanks.

[hrhofmann]

1. Use the color set if you can as it will be more sensitive to ghosting
2. Only trying it will tell if you can open it ok.
3. More elements are better, but usually the more elements, the longer the longest element will be, and you don't need that for DTV signals as the lowest frequencies, which correspond to the longest elements, are no longer in use. ALso more elements will be much harder to open thru your trusses. So, try the smaller number of elements.
4. Tighten the connector at least to the point of as hard as you can using your hands. I would then give it a little more pressure using a small pair of pliers. That way you won't have to crawl back inot the attic to tighten it again the first time temperature changes.

[HeyBub]

If you have a helper, and you each have cell phones (or can yell really loud), you need not take the TV to the attic.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, More number of elements mean sharper angle of beam which is more directional and higher gain. Will need more precise pointing.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, Or Walkie talkie.

[Bob]

Ghosts and snow don't exist with digital TV. You either have a signal or you don't. To best aim the antenna you will need a signal strength meter. Some TVs and converter boxes have them.

[IGot2P]

I can't help you with your questions but for what it's worth, I do know Randy Winegard of Winegard Antennas in Burlington, IA.

Don

[mm]

Tell him I said Hello!

[mm]

And ask him when I can call him for answers to my antenna questions.

[mm]

And tell him it has to be before the weekend. I haven't got all day.

[Mikepier]

I don't know where you live, but if your stations come from the same transmitter, point the antenna to that general area first, then have a friend tell you with a phone or with his voice what is the sweet spot. As the other poster said, most TV's and converter boxes have a strength meter in their menu. What kind of antenna do you have?

[hrhofmann]

Agreed, I should have said the color set might be more susceptible to multipath reflections.

[Mark Lloyd]

No snow or ghosts, but that last thing is NOT true. Maybe you've never experienced a variable (and SOMETIMES adequate) signal. The picture becomes a mess of oversize pixels and the audio turns into "bip....bup....bop......" (erratic semi-vocal noises).

Yes, and I hope you don't have to waste too much time fighting the timeouts.

[mm]

I havne't gotten any noises, but I've certainly gotten checkerboards.

Why do the "authorities" continue to say that the picture is always good? Don't they ever watch weak stations?

I haven't gotten noises but I get interruptions in picture and sound.

In fact every time I turn one of those transformer-base lamps on OR off, the sound stops for a split second, and I think the wall-switch/ceiling fixture does the same thing. I find this quite amazing.

My converter box has that, but it means moving the box around and plugging the power supply. I'll probably just use the DVDR which doesn't have it, but as long as I can see which channels work, that should be enough. (If not, I can do it the other way next.) I see that I didn't mention this, but all 10 DC stations, of which I now only get 2, are within 4 degrees of each other, and I think within 10 degrees of the direction of the trusses in my attic. I think there will be room to turn the antenna 10 degrees, especially if I move the the mini-mast I'll be hanging from the 2x4 I put between 2 adjacent trusses.

It may take a lot of spatial imagination. Supposedly I'm good at that, so that part of it should be fun. Unless it takes too long.

Thank you.

[mm]

Thanks.

I haven't got it yet. The questions were meant to help me choose which one.

I think it will be either a Winegard HD7694P, 5P, or 6P.

Bear in mind that range is really dependent on loads of things.

HD7694P Active Elements: 28 UHF Elements: 17 VHF Elements: 11 Estimated Range: 30 miles VHF & 25 miles UHF Boom Length: 65" Turning Radius 43" Vertical Height: ??? Shipping Weight 7 lbs.

HD7695P Active Elements: 36 UHF Elements: 23 VHF Elements: 19 Estimated Range: 40 miles VHF & 30 miles UHF Boom Length: 90.25" Turning Radius 61" Vertical Height: 19.5" Shipping Weight 9.5 lbs.

HD7696P Active Elements: 41 UHF Elements: 26 VHF Elements: 15 Estimated Range: 50 miles VHF & 40 miles UHF Boom Length: 110.75" Turning Radius 70.6" Vertical Height: ??? Shipping Weight 10.8 lbs.

All have: Maximum Width: 36" Element Diameter: 3/8"

4P has a height a little below 20 inches and 6P a little more than 20 inches.

[Bob]

You're experiencing what occurs when external interference degrades the TV signal to a point below the acceptable threshold. With an analog signal there would have most likely been a pop on the picture or sound, but would not lose the signal completely. Proper antenna positioning can minimize or eliminate the interference and also better assure a good signal in various weather conditions.

[Tony]

First of all I hope you aren't replacing an analog antenna with a new "Digital" one. The truth is that there is practically no difference. If you have the style with wide elements on the far end and they get smaller the closer it gets to the middle, then the only difference is that if you wanted to you could break off a few of the widest ones. Those frequencies aren't used for TV anymore. That's it. That is the only difference between digital and analog antenna.

The whole idea of opening up an antenna up there doesn't sound like anything I'd like to try. Most likely the elements will snap into place and you sometimes need pliers to squeeze the clip before you can fold it in again.

Also with a person in the attic, your reception will likely change. So you have to come down each time when you think you are close. Even people in the next floor below the attic can effect the signal. Most of it depends on how strong your signal is.

Definitely tighten up the connectors, and use the largest color TV you have for testing. If you had an antenna, start with the new one pointing the same direction.

[mm]

Well of course. But I'm also replacing a 15" diameter, flying saucer with rod wings amplified antenna whose amplifier seems to have broken a year ago**, with a 6 to 10 foot long channel 7 to 69 outdoor antenna, in my attic. (Yes, I know they don't use channels above

51?, anymore, but that's how Winegard labels the antennas. **Actually I had two identical Radio Shack amplified antennas and together they lasted about 24 years. They both seemed to break, in that each stoppped working. Other than verifying that the adpater still worked, I didn't any time hunting for a a solvable problem with the first one. I just bought another one, and it worked. Although what is strange is that the voltage is 12 volts on the second floor but only 8 or 9 in the attic, while disconnected from the antenna. It should be the same, right? Yet if the center wire in the co-ax were broken, it would probably be zero.

I certainly know that. Right now I'm using a single strand wire about

7 feet long that I plug into the hole in the co-ax Antenna In connector on the back of the DVDR/digital tuner. And I hang it across an radio cabinet from the 30's.

It does very well, since I'm in Baltimore, getting channels in DC,

7.1, 7.2 and 66.1-4 and sometimes channel 9!, which tvfool.com says I need an attic antenna to get. And this is just a wire. But there are still 8 channels (not counting any .2 or .3 there might be) that I can't get in DC, and I'm hoping to get most of them.

Well, I wasn't going to buy an antenna designed for channels 2 to 6. I presume that's the ones you mean.

BTW, you're not quite right. IIRC there are 40 stations nationwide using low VHF. In fact 3 of them are around here but distant enough that tvfool.com says I have very little chance of getting them even with a very big antenna designed for low VHF. Plus I"m in a little valley. I asked here about using a GPS to find out my altitude compared to the main street a quarter mile from here which runs along the crest of a small hill, while I'm right next to a small stream at the bottom of the hill. With the hill between me and DC. tvfool indicated that I would neeed a 50 foot tall antenna to get more stations than an attic antenna would get me, and 50 feet is just too much for me, to get a couple more stations.

I didn't even ask about that. I assumed I'd be able to get them folded again. I can use pliers.

Good point. I think it faces the same direction. Although it is much smaller and could easily point any direction, I also pointed it to DC because those where the stations i wanted.

[mm]

I don't I had that, and I have the same lamps etc., but the stations were probably stronger before the changeover. I think currently this happens even on local network stations, the strongest signals I get.

I'm hoping it will be very good.

[Mark Lloyd]

The noises are actually parts of words, when the signal doesn't stay on long enough for a whole word.

[snip]